Ran out of gas now will not run

Can you hear the pump run in the tank when you turn the key on without cranking the engine over? If not, I would check the fuel pump relay #19. Here is a guide to help and the fuel pump relay location in the diagrams below:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Also, we should run the codes.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/checking-a-service-engine-soon-or-check-engine-light-on-or-flashing

Check out the diagrams (below). Let us know what happens and please upload pictures or videos of the problem.

the car illustrated is a Toyota, mine is a Kia?

Hi James,

Just to jump in but are you saying that the vehicle illustrated in the links that Ken provided above is a Toyota and does not match your vehicle? If this is the case, then we understand that this is different and sorry for the confusion.

Unfortunately, we don't have the time or ability to create a guide like these on all vehicles so while the vehicle is different, the process is the same as a relay is a relay.

So, take a look at the diagram that Ken attached and let us know if you have a fuse issue with the pump but if you have 0 PSI fuel pressure then the pump is not running or if it is running it has failed.

So, you just need to make sure you have power to the pump and if you do then you will need to replace it even if it is running as it is not building pressure.

I understand it is a new pump but if you have power and ground for the pump, no restriction in the line but still no pressure then you either have no fuel in the tank or the new pump is faulty. This has happened before so don't assume that the replacement part is a good part.

If everything points to a pump as everything else checks out, then I would replace the pump again.

Can i just run a hot wire from the battery to the pump to see if it runs? It is a new pump. cost $230.00 at AutoZone.

Sure can. If you turn the key on and the pump doesn't run, then running 12 volts to it will tell you if the pump is the issue or you are not getting power to it.

Keep in mind that this could be a ground issue too, so if you run power to it and it doesn't run then just rule that out by applying your own ground as well. If it still does not run, then you have a pump issue.

i will do that this afternoon. Does the fuel pressure regulator have input to the pump running or not? How about the throttle position sensor? the MAS air flow sensor?

Okay. No, none of that will prevent the pump from running. The regulator just regulates the pressure once the pump is running so if the pump is good then we need to find out why it is not being commanded on.

pump runs when i jump it with B+ and the pumps ground. so, I guess that means the pump is good? so, what do i check now?

Okay. That is great. Now we need to go back and find out why the pump is not getting power. Ken covered this in the first response, but we need to check 2 fuses and a relay to find out why we have no power.

I am attaching the wiring diagrams below and the diagram that Ken attached but I circled the fuses and relay.

Please check these and make sure they are not blown. If they are not, I would check the power at the relay or just replace the relay.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

Run through this and let us know what you find.

Thanks

15-amp burnt for the second time. i changed it before because it was burnt. when i first checked them. so now i suspect it must have burnt again after i put the new pump in and tried it. and found it did not work. but now we know (?) the fuel pump does work but something is burning the 15-amp main fuse. how do we find out what?

Have you confirmed it is blown again or are you assuming it is?

There are a couple ways to figure this out but that fuse is for the main relay so that means if this is blowing then that can disable the fuel pump relay as well.

This means that something that this fuse and then relay are feeding are drawing too much current.

So, the way to figure this out is to either measure the current that is being drawn on this circuit, but you need an amp meter to do this and then disconnect the components until the amperage drops to an acceptable limit.

The way to do it without any tools is to buy about 10 fuses and then disconnect the components on this circuit one at a time until the fuse doesn't blow anymore.

Clearly if you disconnect one and it blows again then this was not the issue.

One thing I will point out is the main fuse and relay fee the compressor so does this only blow when the AC is on?

If so, this is a compressor failure.

If not, then move onto the other components on the highlighted circuits below.

I do not assume. It is the 10-amp fuse label on the box top as ECU. I checked it three times. I. E 3 blown 15-amp main fuses. removed the 10 ECU fuse and the 15-amp main did not burn. Three times. turned ign on and engaged starter. What is that fuse? Engine control unit? or what? Is that the unit that sends the 2 seconds fuel pump power to the fuel pump when the ign key is first turned on? what now? Thank you, James

Okay. That may be what we call a false positive clue. The reason is, that fuse is powering the ECM so if the ECM has no power, then the issue could be the ECM or more than likely it is just not allowing what the issue is to get power either.

So, what we want to do is take the wiring diagrams that I attached above in the last post and follow it to the relay and then when the relay is engaged the fuse blows. So, this means something that is on the black white wire leaving the relay or the green wire leaving the relay has a component on it that is drawing too much amperage.

So, before we condemn the ECM, we need to remove each of these items one at a time and find out if this fuse blows again.

oh i see, that makes sense. tomorrow i will begin that, thank you. jmc

I see green going to starter control, black/white going to MAF sensor, fuel tank pressure sensor, etc are these the components to disconnect one at a time and check if the fuse blows?

That is correct. I highlighted that black/white wire below and the few items it goes to. These are what you unplug and then the same for the green wire.

Basically this fuse is blowing when this circuit is powered. So that means when that relay is closing there is something that starts drawing too much current and pops the fuse.

Okay, I get it. I will make a list and check the blown fuse unplugging them one at a time.
thank you, jmc

Now I have tried disconnecting some of the components of the black-white wire family. I did not reach any conclusions until I unplugged the 30-amp tall fuse marked inj. that enabled the key switch to be turned on without blowing the 15-amp main fuse. I am confused now are the injectors part of the black/white or green wire groups affected by the main relay? i plugged it back in and turned on the key and the 15-amp main fuse burned open.
Now I am out of 1r amp fuses so I will go to the parts store and get more. i will continue testing when I return. Can you give me some advice? What is the 30-amp inj fuse doing? jmc

I have now burnt 2 15 amp fuses with the 30 amp inj fuse in but not with it out. I am confused. because I do not see inj on the wire diagrams you sent. so what now?

Try unplugging all your injectors and put all other connectors back in place and change the fuses again. Install all fuses and turn the ignition back to run with the injectors unplugged.

If the fuse does not blow again then turn the ignition off, plug them back in one at a time. Then turn the ignition back on each time.

If all this started when you ran out of fuel, then maybe one of the injectors ran dry and shorted to ground somehow.

Basically, what is happening is there is a short to ground somewhere that is blowing this fuse. When you are unplugging different parts of the system you are removing the power or ground to the short circuit and the fuse stops blowing.

So, if I am correct and an injector is causing this then when you disabled the ECM, you were removing the ground side of the circuit to the injectors.

Then when you remove the injector fuse, you are removing the power to the injectors. So, unplugging them should keep the fuse from blowing and then we just need to find which one. Keep in mind, it may be more than one so each time you plug one back in and the fuse blows, you will need to leave that one unplugged and test the rest just to be sure you get them all.

These types of repairs take a little while to sort out unless it is a simple circuit. This is a very complex circuit so we just need to narrow it down.

I do not know where the injector "plugs" are? do I need to remove any of the intake manifold, fuel rail, or air intake to get to them? thanks, jmc

I found the 4 injectors with the plug wire on top. I unplugged the one at a time and turned on the key all the way to the starter turning the engine. Did it twice. I started with the injector closest to the front of the car and the front of the engine. #1 unplugged fuse still burnt, left it unplugged inserted new 15 amp main fuse, unplugged #2 fuse burnt fuse again, new 15 amp, unplugged #3 fuse burnt again, new fuse unplugged #4 fuse burnt again. new fuse. all injectors unplugged, removed 30 amp INJ fuse key on crank, 15 amp fuse did not burn, plugged in 30 amp INJ fuse all injectors unplugged, key on crank,15 amp fuse burnt. what else is on that circuit? What do I do npow? thanks, jmc

Okay. Take a look at this wiring diagram. There are a couple things that this fuse feeds so we need to move onto the next likely thing which would be the ignition coil or the compressor.

Basically, if this main relay fuse is blowing then we just have to keep moving until we find what it is. Like I said, this is a large circuit so just stay patient and you will find it.

Take a look at the diagrams below and I would focus on the second one because this shows both fuses so the smaller 15amp is what is blowing so we have something downstream of this circuit.

the air con is off always, I double-checked it. Are there two ignition coils? i will check it (them) in the morning. Thank you, James.

I understand the A/C is always off but if it is shorted it will still have a path to ground so I would still unplug the compressor just to make sure.

I attached the info on the coils below. Thanks

I unplugged the wires going into the coils under the cover on the firewall end of the motor. turn the key on and the 15-amp fuse burned again. i will go back out and unplug the A/C compressor. brb,

Okay removed. key on 15-amp fuse burned again. now what? thanks, jmc

now the A/C compressor fuse removed also. 15-amp main fuse burnt. That was the last fuse in the 10 pack so I must go to the auto parts store to get more. now what? thanks, jmc

Next thing is to pull the main relay. Take a look at the diagram above and you will see the main fuse goes to the main relay. Let's see if the short is in front of the relay.

Yes, the 15-amp main fuse burned. I then pulled the main relay out and measured VDC of the socket where the relay plugs in with vom. 85 and 86 almost 8 volts, the battery has a full charge. I had the charger on it. then 85 to 87 & 87a same almost 8 volts in socket, 85 to 30 = 0. Should I have pulled all other fuses, so I was testing just the main relay?

So, with the relay removed the fuse did not blow? Or it did with the relay out?

The 8 volts is wrong. It should have 12 volts, so we need to find out why.

I assume you were checking the voltage between the terminals so let's use an outside source and check these voltages.

Basically, you are going to be looking for a short to ground. So, on pin 4 and 1 you should have no continuity to ground.

2 and 3 should have ground with the key on.

So, the other way would be to check pin 1 and 4 using a known good ground and not the other relay terminal.

Then 2 and 3 put your meter on battery positive and then touch these pins with the key on with your black lead on these terminals. You should have 12 volts.

We are looking for where it shows 8 volts, and that leg will be the issue.

This is what I did at each step on your instructions and the results. Please review and advise what next? Kenny K, this is to make sure we are talking about the same things.
**** = my reply
So, with the relay removed the fuse did not blow? Or it did with the relay out?
**** relay removed = did not blow.
The 8 volts is wrong. It should have 12 volts so we need to find out why.
****7.6 volts was measured in the sockets with the relay removed in the fuse/relay box ****mounted in the right side of engine compartment on the relay itself these sockets are ****numbered 85 your supplied schematic pin number 4 and relay numbered 86 your schematic ****number 2
I assume you were checking the voltage between the terminals so let's use an outside source and check these voltages.
***** i was checking voltages in the socket with the relay removed in the fuse/relay box mounted in the right side of engine compartment
_ 85 0
*****on the relay itself the pins are numbered = M _30 12.18 |87a |87 .02 - .25
**** E 12.18 0. 02 _ 86 12.18
.25
_4
**** on your schematic the pins are numbered _ 1 |3 |5
**** this is my interpretation of the schematic _2

Basically, you are going to be looking for a short to ground. So on pin 4 and 1 you should have no continuity to ground. **** M; 4 = 0 ; 1 = 0 ; k off

2 and 3 should have ground with the key on. **** M; 2 = 0; 3 = 10


So the other way would be to check pin 1 and 4 using a known good ground and not the other relay terminal. **** M = 1 o ; 4 = o
****k off; E = 1 = o ; 4 = 1.0 k on ; 1 = o; 4 = 9.4
Then 2 and 3 put your meter on battery positive and then touch these pins with the key on with your black lead on these terminals. You should have 12 volts.
****E; k on ; 2 = 12.15; 3 = .01 ; 5 = 12.18 M ; k on; 2 = 0 ; 3 = 12.15 ; 5 = 11.8 ; 4 = 11.6 ; 1 = 0
We are looking for where it shows 8 volts and that leg will be the issue.

Okay. That is good. We are getting closer. Let me know if you did this and what the voltage reading is because I don't think I see it in the above response.

Turn the key on.

Remove the relay and check the voltage on pin 4 with your red meter lead and then the black meter lead on a known good ground.

Then the red meter lead on pin 1 and the black on a known good ground.

Try to use the battery post as the known good ground.

key on red on 4 = 0
on 1 =12.1 black lead on battery ground

Okay. Pin 4 and 1 are both fed by the same fuses and circuit so they should have identical voltage.

If they don't then there has to be a short to ground after the splice for pin 1 and pin 4.

Also, this makes sense as to why the 15-amp fuse is blowing and not the injector fuse because it is a 30 amp. So, the 15 pops first because it is smaller.

If the 15-amp fuse is removed and a 45 amp is put in, the 30 would blow first.

So here is how we confirm this:

Turn the key off.

Remove the relay, and let's check resistance to ground on pin 4.

You do this by putting your meter on ohms then put the red lead on terminal 4 and then the black on battery negative. It should read OL or infinite resistance. Get a picture of the meter because depending on what meter you have, it could be different.

However, if you have a reading then you have a path to ground and with the relay removed, there should be no path to ground.

ohm meter set on 200 range.

We are narrowing in on it. We have a short, but it appears this is not a wire but instead a circuit board that is connecting these fuses and relay.

So, if it were me, I would source a new fuse box or take this one apart and see if you can find any signs of water intrusion as that is likely what caused this.

I don't have any info on how to take it apart so you would have to look and see if there are tabs to separate it and access the circuit board.

I do not see anyway. I do not think it has a circuit board. There are wires connecting the various sockets where fuses are plugged.

Maybe I identified the pin numbers wrong?

I do see a wire connecting the relay to the 15 amp fuse.