Oil Pan and Pump removal and installation

LOL Tony, welcome to my world. I feel like that all the time. What new code do you have?

Let me know.

Joe

Joe,

Did you get my three responses yesterday? In those I think I gave you a rundown of the current situation, much of which hasn't changed. Let me know if you didn't get them or if I need to better describe something.
Tony

Tony, I did. I'm sorry, I read the last one yesterday and assumed that was everything.

The codes you have (111 indicate everything passes), 628 excessive converter clutch slip, 634 is specific to the MLP (manual lever position) switch. It is on the side of the transmission and changes resistance signals to the PCM based on gear selection. The code is specific to a variation in signal resistance when in park, so I don't think that is the cause. Pic 1 below provides the diagnostics and possible adjustments.

The excessive clutch slip has a list of diagnostics. However, I don't see how that is causing a rough idle.

Regardless, starting with pic 2 are the diagnostics related to the 628 code. Here is the issue. The steps have you check something and based on the results; it takes you to a different test. I was able to get you through the first two because I know what you have already told me. However, after that, I need to know the results of test 2 so I take you to the next correct test.

Take a look and let me know your thoughts.

I do have one other question. The roughness you feel with the engine, does it seem like a misfire or just like a simple continuous rough idle?

Let me know.

Joe

See pics below

PS: Since you are unable to find anything related to the engine that may be causing the issue, what are your thoughts on a possible compression issue or plugged catalytic converter?

Joe,

I know the transmission codes are a separate issue which is good, now I have another challenge. As far as the rough engine is concerned, I can't say if it's a miss or something else. That's why I was hoping I could get the computer to perform the cylinder balance test. Maybe I'm not doing it right? Anyway, in my experience with a cylinder not firing, it was very noticeable. Can I use a test light and poke each plug to see if that's it? I hope I don't have an injector issue.
Thanks.

Hi,

You can check to see if there is spark to each plug, but I'm not sure how you could do it to perform a cylinder balance test.

Here is a link if you want to check for a good spark at each plug. It explains how to do it.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

Let me know what you find.

Joe

According to my Innova code reader manual, one test the ECC-IV can perform is what is called a cylinder balance, where the computer shuts off each injector to see if there is any noticeable change and will identify the cylinder, but I can't get it to do it.
As for the plugs, I don't have individual coil packs. It's just the one. In the old days, we used to ground the plug by piercing the boot with a test light to disable each cylinder. I just didn't know if that is still acceptable today with computers involved in the ignition system.
Tony

Tony,

If you pierce the boot, it will likely start arcing. At least, that would be my luck. LOL

However, if you want to do it that way, it will still work. Just make sure the test light has a good ground and hopefully, you won't get zapped. LOL

The only thing I can say is this. Electric takes the easiest way out. Power may still go to the plug. However, if it worked before, it will still work.

Let me know what you find and thanks for the new Idea. I may just try it myself to save time. LOL

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

The wire on my test light was too old and cracked, so I went a different direction. I ran the KOEO & KOER tests again and passed (111), but I still can't get the computer to run the cylinder balance test.
So, I approached this from a different angle. Using a thermal image camera, I looked at the exhaust manifolds, looking for large temperature differences that might indicate a non-firing cylinder. I first did this upon initial start-up with the engine cold. There was one cylinder that was questionable, but it later seemed okay. Of course, it could just be heat migration from the adjoining cylinder. The cat. looked fine with a uniform heat image so I don't think it is restricting exhaust. I can't understand why all this started from changing the oil pump.

Tony,

Are you certain there are no engine vacuum leaks that can be causing a rough idle? As far as the balance test, I attached what I have as far as directions. Take a look through them and see if there is anything you are missing.

Let me know.

Joe

Joe,

When I plug a vacuum gauge into the intake the needle is rock steady.

Your instructions for the cylinder balance test are the same as the ones I've been following. When the KOER test is run, I get all the way through until it shows 111, then I get a code 10 and I press the acc. pedal. There is no rise in RPM where and when each injector is supposed to turn off, etc. Some procedures say to lightly press the pedal and my Code reader says to push it to the floor. I've tried it both ways many times, but still nothing.

Hi,

When the cylinder is shut down, it should lower RPMs. Also, code 10 should be related to a cylinder 1 issue or a wide-open throttle issue. Pull cylinder 1 spark plug and let me know what it looks like.

Also, let me know what the vacuum reading is you are seeing.

Joe

Joe,

The code reader manual says that a 10 is not a fault code. It is only a separator between tests and stored continuous memory codes.

I watched a YouTube video of the cylinder balance test. The engine rpms rise to about 2000 then the computer starts shutting off each cylinder and you see the RPMs drop. It's very obvious. But I can't get it to do it.

As far as vacuum, I read steady 17" at the intake manifold.

Joe,
I am attaching a photo of the spark plug.

Hi,

The plug appears normal. The only other thing I can think of is if there is an intermittent issue or there is a timing issue. You checked compression, correct? In reality, this doesn't even seem like a possibility based on what led to it. However, either we are missing something really simple, or something was changed when the pan was off. Which again, really makes no sense.

Let me know if there is anything you can remember that may have happened when the oil pan was removed. Was there anything you did other than remove and replace?

Let me know.

Joe

Hey Joe,
Sorry to put you through this. I'm sure you're tired of this one.

I triple checked everything I disconnected. Vacuum lines to/from the upper manifold, electrical connectors to the idle control valve, and O2 sensor and tubing from the air pump to the diverter valves and cat. (Thermactor system). The EGR was unbolted from the upper plenum, but I'm sure I reattached it with the flange gasket. The battery was disconnected throughout the work, so I doubt it is something in the electronics.
I can't think of anything else that I disturbed.

I never did a compression test, but that shouldn't matter since I didn't have this problem before.

Hi,

You aren't putting me through anything. I feel bad I can't figure it out for you. It's frustrating. Could you record it cranking and starting and upload it for me to hear? I don't know if it will help, but anything is possible. Not being there makes it really difficult for me.

Let me know.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Sorry for the delay. I had to deal with taxes. I've tried to make a recording, but I can't upload it. Even 20 seconds was above the file size limit. I don't know what to do at this point. It seems like a miss since it stutters from idle and while accelerating. Is it possible that some sensor is bad and not throwing a code? I've read where other people say it's the PCM. Over time there are capacitors that leak. Any thoughts. Thanks.

Hi,

Tony, I'm sorry to hear you are still dealing with this. Not being there makes it difficult when you don't have codes. Have you checked the ignition control module connector to make sure nothing has come loose and confirm where it mounts (ground) to the body isn't corroded?

See pic 1 below for the location.

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.

Hey Joe,

I sent you a response last week, but it looks like it didn't post....
The ECM and heat sink look fine.
I drove the truck again and it runs rough. It stutters from idle and continues at all speeds and RPMs, it lacks power on acceleration, and it doesn't seem to shift right.
I ran the engine tests again and keep getting different results. The KOEO produces no codes (111). I ran the KOER test three times. The first time it passed with no codes (111), the second test I got (129) which is for a MAF problem, but I don't have an MAF, I have a MAP sensor, and I also got a code (167) TPS. In park, the throttle seems to react fine. However, when driving, if I depress the pedal, it's like it's not connected. There is no power.
On the third test, both codes disappeared, and I only got a (538). I can't understand why I keep getting different results.

Hi,

The codes appear to all be related to the dynamic response test. Take a look at pic 1 with the new code.

Here is what I suggest: I need you to perform the test in pic 2 and let me know the results so I know which direction to go next.

Let me know if you are comfortable performing the test.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

Joe,

I think we went down this road before. According to my Innova Codes, there are two listings for code 538. One is for the issue you are referring to and one is labeled (Trucks Only) "Invalid cylinder balance test due to throttle movement during test". And I never touched the throttle.

Joe,
I may have solved this or at least part of it. Just for fun, and since it's been stuck in the back of my mind, I removed the PCM. I took the cover off and found that two of the capacitors have corroded legs and have broken connections to the circuit board. Rather than trying to change them and since the other components are 30 years old, I was considering a remanufactured one. Are Cardone's reliable or do you prefer other options? Some companies that came up on a search have horrible reviews and terrible BBB ratings.

Thanks,
Tony

Hi,

That does sound like a problem. As far as the company you mentioned, I never dealt with them. About a year ago, I found a cracked solder joint in the PCM of my own vehicle. It drove me nuts. LOL I did end up purchasing a plug-and-play PCM online and to my surprise, it worked perfectly and still does. For the life of me, I can't remember the name of the place. If you want, I can see if the site owner remembers because he recommended them to me.

Let me know.

Joe

That would be a great help Joe. Thanks.

Hi,

He couldn't remember either. LOL I dug through all my emails. I finally found it back in May of 2020. Here it is. See if they have what you need.

https://www.carcomputerexchange.com

Take care,

Joe

Thanks Joe,
I'll keep you posted.

Hey Joe,

Put in remanufactured ECU/PCM. The good news is that there are no codes, and the transmission is acting normal again. But I still have that rough idle and stuttering on initial acceleration. It seems okay at speed, or at least I can't tell. I even replaced the MAP sensor. I feel like I'm chasing a ghost.
I've read on a Ford Truck forum, others who have the same symptoms. They replaced every sensor, plugs, wires and controllers and still have the problem.

Hi,

First, I'm glad to know some of the issues are now resolved. We need to get this rough idle/acceleration issue taken care of.

Is the idle rough if the vehicle is in park or neutral?

Also, where did you get the PCM? Was it a plug and play?

Let me know.

Joe

Hey Joe,

The PCM was a "plug and play". The roughness/stumble is in all trans modes, and I feel it throughout the RPM range.

I never removed the IAC when I removed the intake plenum/throttle body, so I took that off to visually check the valve and spring. It was pretty carbon covered so I decided to replace it since I had it off, plus there were a couple of vacuum lines from the throttle body that were in bad shape, so I replaced them also. I rechecked the vacuum, 18" and steady. Well, it now idles worse than before.

Hi,

When you had the IAC off, did you inspect where it mounts on the throttle body to make sure there is nothing causing a restriction?

Also, are there any new codes since it started running worse?

Let me know.

Joe

Joe, I didn't look into the TB. And no Codes except when I run the KOER test, I still get a 538 on the first test and not on any subsequent test. Could this be an injector issue and not throw a code?

I would think you would get a misfire code as well if it was a faulty injector. Also, do I understand correctly that the IAC was replaced?

If it was and you didn't check inside where it mounts to the throttle body, there could be a restriction there.

Also, if you could, take a pic or two of the vacuum hoses that you replaced so I can determine if there is an issue there. It doesn't make sense that it runs worse.

Let me know.

Joe

Hey Joe, I took off the IAC valve and inspected inside with a borescope. I can't see anything. I've attached some pics of this and of the vacuum lines I replaced. They are from the vapor canister (starting at a Y fitting) to upper and lower ports on throttle body on the driver side.

Wow, I think that's the cleanest one I've ever seen. LOL And there are still no codes related to the engine? Just for curiosity, how many miles have you driven the vehicle since the PCM was replaced?

Let me know.

Joe

No codes. I'd say I drove about 10 miles since I installed the PCM.

Has there been any change after the 10 miles (better / worse)? I'm just wondering if it is running a relearn of some sort.

Joe

Joe,

No change. Since the roughness seems rhythmic and not random, I'm leaning toward a plug, wire, cap or injector. I pulled all the plugs this time and seven look good, only one (cylinder 8) seems fouled. I'm attaching a photo. Let me know your thoughts.
Also, the plugs I pulled, Motorcraft AGSF 32C, are not the correct plugs for this 5.8l motor. Per my owner's manual they are supposed to be ASF 32C. While they are both copper electrode plugs, the threaded ends look to be different lengths. At least what a photo of the correct plug shows. I ordered a platinum tip Motorcraft replacement SP-501 which is supposed to be an upgrade to the ASF 32C.

Hi,

In the picture, I see two plugs. The cleaner one looks normal. The corroded one has me a bit concerned. That appears to be either oil-fouled or coolant-fouled. Did you ever notice any blue smoke from the exhaust or if the coolant gets low?

Take a look through this link specifically at step 2. Read through it and let me know your thoughts.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-for-ignition-spark

Keep in mind that cylinder 8 is one of the furthest back from the water pump. As a result, they tend to run hotter. This can cause wear to occur faster than in the forward cylinders.

Regardless, let me know your thoughts.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

All the other plugs look the same as the one good one in the photo. The carbon fouled looking plug was not wet, although it hasn't been run in a while.

I have never seen any smoke from the exhaust or smelling gas or coolant.

I don't have a coil on the plug ignition system, as demonstrated in your linked video and test procedures. I can't swap any plugs now since I broke 2 getting them all out. I
had such a hard time getting them to turn. I thought they were seized. They have been there for about 15 years (30,000 miles). I had to use a 1/2" impact through the fender well on two, hence the breakage. I should have the new ones tomorrow. I'll also try and scope the cylinder.

Hi,

Wow, they must have been tight. Regardless, let me know what happens and if the new plugs take care of the issues. I'm interested in knowing.

Take care,

Joe