No start

Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
SO IT WILL NOT hurt the engine to move the cams to place in correct position at the 12 mark with the chain off and then rotate the cam to TDC and then reinstall chains?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, February 4th, 2017 AT 11:28 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
Right around TDC I am unable to spin any further I know the chain jumps teeth I see it happening also which caused the timing way off now I need to move both cams til they are in the 12 oclock correct can I do that with a wrench and does it matter if Im not TDC?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, February 4th, 2017 AT 11:30 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
It shows you can use a wrench on the procedure to adjust the cams so they are at the 12 oclcok position but does being TDC matter? Hard to see marks on timing cover I see the big hole in the pulley but nothing on cover
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Saturday, February 4th, 2017 AT 11:37 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,577 POSTS
Look at the crankshaft layout and you will see that you can move it to 90 degrees off top dead center in either direction and the pistons will be lined up halfway down the bores. That will allow you to move the cams without hitting the valves anywhere. Then you can set the cams in position and get the crank into place after the cams. DO NOT TRY TO FORCE IT.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, February 5th, 2017 AT 1:31 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
Can I move the cams with the chain on it has some slack and let's me move them with a wrench but do I place them both with marks at the 12 o'clock position even though I'm not TDc I need to take the lower cover off too
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, February 5th, 2017 AT 1:51 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,577 POSTS
I would pull the cover off so you can get to the chains and then make sure that everything is engaged. If you have enough slack that the chains can move I think you will probably be needing more than new timing chains. From that description it sounds like the tensioner failed. That would have let the crank turn without the cams moving. I would probably just pull the chain and pull the head and be sure of what you have before going any farther. A slightly bent valve would let you turn the engine over but still be junk.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Sunday, February 5th, 2017 AT 6:13 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
Can I put the cams at 12 o'clock and install the chain that way with the chain off turn them but don't u have to be at tdc to remove the cover or can u still determine when cover is off or chain off
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 5:38 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
I know the tensioner failed I'm asking how do u get the cams back at 12 o'clock to line up the marks?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 5:41 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
Want to make sure they r in the right spot and correct in diagrams it shows they are already in the 12 o'clock to install the chain but mine aren't cuz the tensioner failed
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 5:45 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,577 POSTS
What you need to do is determine that cylinder 1 is at TDC or coming up on TDC. Then leave the crankshaft 90 degrees away from that position, with number one ready to come up on TDC. Then rotate the cams into position. Now GENTLY bring number one up to set the crank to TDC. You cannot just rotate the cams with the pistons in the way.

Now you can remove the chain and reinstall it so the marks line up. If you just try to rotate the parts with the chain on you will just do more damage.
As it is I think you have a dead engine if that tensioner failed and that engine turned over even one time with the chain jumping. That is one of it's known failure modes. Valves get out of time, piston comes up in the bore and hits the valves just like hitting a nail.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 9:32 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
So to fix we need to have head machines and new valves installed do they line the cams up for me then
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 11:44 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,577 POSTS
Nope. They will machine the head and install new valves as needed but you will still need to do the assembly.

The way I would proceed if it was my engine: First I would remove both cams from the head after marking all the parts and taking a few pictures. Then I would do a leak down test of each cylinder to verify that it does have some bent valves. (it would be incredible luck for there to be no damage, about like walking out the door and finding a stack of gold with a sign with your name on it)
The leak down test shows that there is leakage past valves in two cylinders. Next step would be to drain the coolant and pull the head off. Then look for the telltale marks of the valves hitting the pistons. I have seen them just scuff the surface and I have seen them go right through the piston tops and everything in between. IF it's just minor scuffs and it didn't hurt the lower end I would then have the head rebuilt. If it is more severe I would either replace the engine with a used one or get a remanufactured engine.

It all depends on what the damage is and how bad. But it would start with the leakdown test. With the cams out it would be easier. Just connect a good air supply of about 50 psi. to the spark plug hole, gently apply air and let the piston go to the bottom of the bore and listen at the intake and exhaust for air. Then turn off the air and rotate the crank to bring that piston to the top and lock it there and test again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6UDPd7yIjE
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 12:13 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
Taking head to do valve job so once the install cams back in at 12 o'clock I just put chains back on and go does it matter about taking apart at tdc or can I adjust that once I go to put chains on the crank that is with the chains off and cams at 12
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 1:07 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
What do u mean marking the parts I guess I'm confused do I need to have the engine at tdc before removing just trying to see how to get all timed again even if not tdc
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 1:13 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
As long as the cam are 12 oclock and marks right and the crank line up for the chain all will be good
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 5:04 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,577 POSTS
The marks would be the ones left from the valves hitting the pistons.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 5:33 PM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
The thing is the cam marks are align with the front and rear of cams but not in the 12 o'clock position area when tdc so so I have to mark them at all since I have to realign them when I do the chain
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Monday, February 6th, 2017 AT 6:15 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,577 POSTS
The cams should be out when you put the head back on. Then you just bring number one to TDC. Make sure the chain is correct on the crank and the idler. Then you install one cam. Line up the plated chain links with the correct marks, install the other cam and line up those marks and release the tensioner.

Where the cams are NOW won't matter one bit as they have to be removed from the head before they can work on it anyway. So just strip it down, get the head finished and put it back together. You will want to replace ALL the chains and guides as well as checking over the rest of the engine for problems.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, February 7th, 2017 AT 1:25 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
I wasn't asking if the heads don't come off then would I align the cams when the chain is off correct and if not exactly tdc can I move the crank with the chain off to line up marks after I install spacer and take lower cover off
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, February 7th, 2017 AT 5:59 AM
Tiny
RVAHRENHOLD
  • MEMBER
  • 47 POSTS
Ment to say if the head does not come off can I align with the chain off
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Tuesday, February 7th, 2017 AT 11:22 AM

Please login or register to post a reply.

Sponsored links