96 Plym Voyager gas in oil not starting gas and spark presen

Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
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TESTING

Unplug the injector electrical connector.

Using an ohmmeter, test the injector resistance across the injector terminals. The reading should be approximately 12 ohms at 68°F (20°C).

If the resistance falls outside specifications, replace the faulty injector.

If the resistance is within specifications, proceed with the testing.

Place a 12 volt test lamp across the injector's electrical connector terminals. Watch the test lamp while cranking the engine and compare with the following:

If the test lamp does not flash, check the power feed and ground circuits between the PCM and the injector connector. Refer to the wiring diagrams in Chassis Electrical for wire colors. If the circuits are faulty, repair them. If the circuits are OK, test the engine control system using the Chrysler DRB, or equivalent scan tool.

If the test lamp flashes, proceed with the testing.

Check for fuel delivery at the suspect injector by removing the injector from the fuel rail and check for fuel and/or restrictions in the rail or injector fuel inlet. Compare your results with the following:

If there is no fuel present at the injector, replace the plugged injector, or clean the restricted passage, as necessary.

If there is fuel present at the injector, proceed with the testing.

With the injector removed from the fuel rail, connect a 12 volt source to one terminal on the injector connector and a ground wire to the other terminal. The injector should click each time the ground wire is connected and disconnected to and from the terminal.

If the injector clicks, it is OK. If it does not click, it must be replaced.

I BORROWED A CAR WITH SAME ENGINE TO DO THE INJECTOR TEST, IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO FLASH LIKE TEST PROCEDURE SAYS, MY VAN TESTED JUST LIKE THE RUNNING MOTER!
I have got it to fire a couple times now, I've always held the pedal to the floor the whole time no pumping, I think I will proceed with the oil change, dry out the cyl. Like u said and I think it will start. Try it tomorrow.

And I think tech level 1 is just from answering others posts!

I'll let u know if I get it started
thanks for hangin in w/me
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Wednesday, March 21st, 2007 AT 8:42 PM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
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Now just on the realistic side. Not putting anybody down. Ask any L1 tech or any1 who really can fix real world driveability problems . Nobody will count on resistant to conclude good or bad injectors. Only resistant test can proof is bad injectors but not the other way around.U can't see if they open 1/2 way, stuck or fully open. Closer to test they are good is to scope it with voltage or amperage probably a 5 gas relative flow test. Also noid light didn't mean squat cuz it can't tell how many milli sec of on time at cold start.U try that on a vortec 350. Anything under 10 ms I don't care u getting good spark compression and fuel pressure. It aint gonna start.I know for sure. Cuz thats when I decided to go to class buy equipment and read 2 hrs of tech scripture everynite.I'm just too tired and too shame of callin every1 up to bail my behind out whenever I run into a problem and I can't stand up to it. No sweat man.I know very li'o about pc computer neither. Cuz I don't have to know enuff of pc to make a living. But on cars.I must. Thats the only way I know how to make a living.
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Wednesday, March 21st, 2007 AT 10:56 PM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
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Mr. Knight

While cranking the engine the injectors are being pulsed. Now the fuel flow is unknown-maybe a flow test will confirm the condition of the injectors. Now if your spark is weak it will not fire upon that fuel further check of the ignition system is needed.

Maybe the quad driver in the PCM is stuck on the ground side causing it not to switch and constant fuel is being injected when not wanted.

Again if the pressure regulator is not doing its job or clogged fuel return line it overpressurize the system causing a flooding condition. Dunno if its a returnless system

Did you check the pressure regulator and for a clogged return line?

If you can knock this out I will recommend immediate promotion to Tech2 level between me and Chan we've given something to think! About-go back and read it again. Quit playing hocus pocus! Get the job done by the numbers. Don't worry am watching you every step of the way.

Remember you're a Tech in here-you lead by examples for others to follow
Now go back and select your course of actions to get to this Damian, and then take action.

Good Luck-am eye balling
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Thursday, March 22nd, 2007 AT 1:38 AM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
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HEY RASMA!
Think about the following. WAKE UP!
- 3 things make a car start and run --> right
- he went on and by pass the compression, oil change and crank the car --> he had no grasp on the concept of compression and mixture ignition temperature.
- injectors test from some voodoo place --> had no basic concept of how fuel inject sys operate and can't determine whats good or bad info --> tons of info everywhere I can almost fix most car with the info just over the open internet but what is useful whats not --> thats what real mechanic is all about --> the ability to evaluate and modify what's need on ur own situation by mastering basic.
In this case --> u've gotta think
---has pressure and hold pressure( KOEO) = pressure regulator chks out <- fuel pressure only truely reflect the state and condition of pressure regulator
-- I looked up all data. Regulator is in the tank but is a 2 line system. IT IS NOT A RETURNLESS SYSTEM!
-- spark test open only means the computer trigger ignition system. Means nuthing to correct timing and also means nuthing about it can supply adequate voltage under cylinder pressure. Only known way I can think of is using current probe and compare it with known good ignition coil wave form which there's plenty of em' available such as IATN
-- fuel volume test can only test by a fuel analyser
such as KODA under engine running condition
I'll bet u anything that he clean up his excess fuel. Do an oil change . That thing will fire right up. The reason he still can't start is becuz he is not having adequate compression therefore his mixture temp is not nearly close to ignite.

Now least and not last. Who and how this tech level system work. Why aint u tech level 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.10 but masterpros status.I'm just curious.I came in here to sharpen my diagnostic skill so it can enhance my daily practice.

1 more thing. We are not sure his injectors, camor ignition timingis correct. But if he hasn't proof the basic. Why bother. As least my opinion between a pro and amateur is --> pro don't have 2 years to do a project like amateur. We've gotta be on the money in a hurry to tell a customer whats the problem, how much and how long to fix it. Agree?
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Thursday, March 22nd, 2007 AT 5:54 AM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
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Okay-Lee Wang Kin Chan I hear you

Well he came aboard w/a problem and its obvious that somewhere he lost us. Maybe his diagnostic procedures are not up to snuff-but someday he'll learn thru his mistakes.

Compression problems-all he had to do was do a wet/dry test or leakdown or reading the vacuum gauge and put it all together for conclusion.

As for his ignition he can use a probe or the scope to ID a problem within the ignition system

KOEO on fuel pressure check don't mean nothing-it has to run and maintain that pressure by the regulator. Static/RUN w/w/o the regulator/Hold/Volume all these thing has to come in place.

As for iANT I'm a member there that place separates the boys from the men. Just like the Pros vs Ammys here.

We really don't know what's really wrong and what's been done so far. All I know so far is fuel getting into the crankcase. I've been giving him things to look that can be a cause.

If in fact he did drain it and apply some oil drops in the cylinder it should be able to fire up. Unless its a different issue such as Valve and Ignition timing

You need to bring up the issue of Tech level to higher up. Don't really know how its done. Maybe Max/Jack/Ken/Bruce/Service Writer will explain.

Amen!
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Friday, March 23rd, 2007 AT 1:10 AM
Tiny
MERLIN2021
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Do you guys remeber the days of carbuerators? Gas lines freezing? Cylinders washing in gas? The first thing done then was. Change oil, change plugs and wires. Try to start car, usually with sucess, three basics have not chenged ya need compression, test not done yet? Spark, and gas. This car supposedly has two out of three. DO A WET COMPRESSION TEST!
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Monday, April 2nd, 2007 AT 4:13 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
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Well I was taking a break to try and get some $$ to donate before I asked any more?'S -->but I had did some tests before I stopped and I wanted to tell the results, --- I changed the oil first and tried to start it but it wouldn't -- the compression test was 150 psi. On every cyl but #4 (it was 130), but after adding oil to cyl. It came up to 150. The other cyl.'S did not improve much with adding oil. Later I peeked in a book at the store and it said compression should be 178 psi at 250 rpm's.? Dont know if 28 psi difference will make it not start. Was going to try and cut a slot in the timing covers (it is plastic) to verify timing belt/cams are lining up properly. Because to me it sounds like when it tries to fire most of the time it stops the motor for a split second then the starter kicks back in, ---some times but not very many it fires two times in a row and it turns the motor faster instead of stopping it And I also found out after the cold wheather was over (when it first wouldn't start) that the battery had not really exploded, but swelled up and split leaking battery acid down, only thing below is 2 wire harness plugs (cleaned them) and the pcm is beside the battery with the power dist. Center in between the batt. And the pcm? Doesnt look like any battery fluid got on it (the pcm).
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Saturday, April 7th, 2007 AT 3:38 PM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
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A 100 psi is good enuff to fire an engine. If u've got the correct timing and good sparks.U could have use starting fluid and get it running for a few seconds
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Saturday, April 7th, 2007 AT 8:57 PM
Tiny
KNIGHTSCBR
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I've tried the starting fluid, same results no starting, it may be flooding cause the timing is off were it wont start, thats what I was going to try and check next by cutting a small hole in the plastic timing belt cover and checking to see if the belt is lining up on the marks?
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Saturday, April 7th, 2007 AT 9:46 PM
Tiny
KIN CHAN
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If ur cam timing is off. How can u have compression. Crimp off ur fuel supply line. Clear all cylinder dry 1 more time. Spray starting fluid and start it again. If still won't start its gotta be ur ignition timing. Most likely the battery acid damage ur computer. Let me know the tail end of the story
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Saturday, April 7th, 2007 AT 9:52 PM

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