Engine will not start until five or more tries?

BENLEE1199

MEMBER
2001 HONDA ACCORD
2.0L
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
200,000 MILES

Over the past two weeks or so, my car is having trouble starting, but probably only about 1 out of 20 tries, so only occasionally. The crank is very strong, but when this issue occurs, it won't start until trying multiple times. Today it took about 10 tries before it started, which is the worst I've experienced so far.

I suspect a fuel related issue, but then I would expect to have an issue while driving as well, but so far it has not stalled once. Once starting the car runs great and continues to start normally and quickly for the next many tries.

Part of the reason that I suspect a fuel issue is that when the car would crank but not start, I tried just turning the key to the "on" position without starting it, and I could not hear the fuel pump cycling on. Then once it finally started and drove to where I was going and parked, I shut the car off, and turned the key to "on" and I did hear the fuel pump cycle on that time.

I don't necessarily want to point to the fuel system or fuel pump as the issue, but just wanted to give as much information as possible.

How can I determine if the fuel pump (or maybe a relay or some other fuel system component) is the issue?What are some other possible causes for this type of intermittent starting issue?

Thanks so much for your input!

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Monday, May 6th, 2019 AT 1:47 PM

27 Replies

KASEKENNY

MECHANIC
18,907 POSTS

Hi Benlee,

I agree that this sounds like a fuel issue. Next time this does it, crank it one time so that you know it is doing it and then spray some starter fluid in the intake and see if it starts up on the next try. This will confirm a fuel issue. When you turn the key to the on position without cranking the engine over can you hear the fuel pump run in the tank for 5 seconds?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

What I suspect is happening is the fuel pressure is bleeding down and it takes the engine cranking a few times to build the pressure back up. This is caused by a week fuel pump. It is normal for the fuel pressure to bleed off over time but a strong pump can build the pressure back as soon as you turn the key.

When you hear the pump kick on when you turn the key is normal. The only times you will hear it is when the fuel rail pressure is low and the pump comes on.

Another thing you can do, is cycle the key a few times without cranking the engine. So when you crank it the first time and it does not start, try cycling the key about 3-4 times. This will cause the pump to build the pressure. So turn it to the on position until you don't hear the pump and then cycle it again. This will build the pressure and it should start the next time you crank it. If it does then I would start sourcing a fuel pump.

The last thing is to hook a fuel pressure gauge to the engine and monitor the fuel pressure when this is acting up. You simply locate the schrader valve on the fuel rail and hook up a fuel pressure gauge.

So you have a couple ways to test this. If you do each of them and it still cranks but does not start then we need to start looking at sensors. Most likely it would be a crank sensor issue but we can dig into that once we eliminate a fuel issue.

https://youtu.be/NHWTTht6fkU

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Check out the diagrams (Below). Please let us know what you find. We are interested to see what it is.

Image (Click to make bigger)

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Tuesday, May 7th, 2019 AT 6:26 PM

KEN L

MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
47,643 POSTS

If you don't hear the pump you are on the right trail. I would do the fuel pump and relay. here is a guide to walk you through the steps and diagrams below to help you do the job:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-an-electric-fuel-pump

Check out the diagrams (below). Please let us know what you find. We are interested to see what it is.

Images (Click to make bigger)

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Tuesday, May 7th, 2019 AT 6:36 PM

BENLEE1199

MEMBER
69 POSTS

Thanks guys for your input on this! I will look into those suggestions. I also thought of another thing I should mention that I did not consider before.

The car has an aftermarket key-less entry/alarm system installed, and normally it beeps (aftermarket speaker under the hood) when you click the button to lock or unlock the car. About a month ago it suddenly stopped beeping when you lock or unlock the car with the aftermarket remote, but the car still locks or unlocks with the remote. I didn't give it much thought since the remote still worked and I didn't really care if it beeped or not, but now I'm wondering if this could be related to the starting issue and the "immobilizer" unit in the car as being the possible cause of the system not allowing fuel to be sent when the key is turned on occasionally.

My understanding is that if the unit is not triggered when the key is turned, then the green key light on the dash will continue blinking and not turn off if the key is not valid or if there is some kind of issue with the immobilizer unit, but I'm not sure if the light was continuing to flash the last time the no-start issue happened since I was not yet aware of this feature until now.

The next time I have the no-start problem I will look at the green key light to see if it turns off after a few seconds or if it continues to blink until the key is removed, but I just wanted to throw this issue out there to see if you have an input on it as another possible cause to the issue and if there is anything I can check to troubleshoot it.

Thank you!

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Thursday, May 9th, 2019 AT 9:52 AM

KASEKENNY

MECHANIC
18,907 POSTS

This could be an issue but usually the way these work is the vehicle will not even crank over because they install them in the starter circuit not the fuel circuit. As for the beeping that is gone, most likely the speaker under the hood is just failed. If the system still works then I wouldn't worry about the beep (as you stated).

Let us know about the fuel pressure or if cycling the key let's it start.

Thanks

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Thursday, May 9th, 2019 AT 11:46 AM

PIOUS

MEMBER
2 POSTS
2001 HONDA ACCORD
86,000 MILES

Had a couple problems about three weeks back. First, car wasn't performing well. It idles well but when in motion and I step on the gas, car seemed to stall slightly and when picking up speed, doesn't move smoothly. This is indicated by the needle of the engine rev clock. Instead of rising smoothly, it kinda stalls intermitently and you can feel it in the movement of the car.

Did some random checks my self and came up with nothing. Took it to a mechanic and they had the nozles cleaned and checked if there's any vacuum leaks. All seemed ok but problem persisted!

Finally, we had to change the injector. Problem ceased and all seemed well until yesterday.

Left the car parked for over 24hrs. Tried to start it but it wouldn't. Just kept ckanking and almost ran down my batery. Left it for abt two hours after which I gave it another try. This time, I had to push the gas to the floor. Car stuttered until it finally started. But the idle speed was somewhere around 200, and engine was realy vibrating! Took it to the technicians and had the speed tuned up a bit cos at that speed, when I turned on the airconditioner, car just goes off.

Left the workshop and car was criusing real fine. Stoped @ a friend's. Spent a couple hours. On starting the car, it started well and all seemed ok. But when I got moving and steped on the gas, I noticed the erlier problem I narated about car stalling was back! It idles well, but while moving and I step on the gas, it stalls and the engine rev needle clearly shows that.

Please, what could be the problem? Could my fuel pump be bad? Or could it be some other culprit?

Ps: sorry about the lengthy narative.

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:57 PM (Merged)

HMAC300

MECHANIC
48,601 POSTS

Scan for codes and check fuel pressure first

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:57 PM (Merged)

PIOUS

MEMBER
2 POSTS

Thanks for your response. I'd do just that.

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:57 PM (Merged)

J.WRIGHT

MEMBER
1 POST
2001 HONDA ACCORD
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
110,000 MILES

Hello, My 2001 Honda Accord will crank but not start. This has been an intermittant problem. This morning I could not get the car to start at all. I can turn my headlights on and attempt to start; the headlights will dim greatly. Do I have a bad battery or possibly a dead spot on my starter?

As odd as this may sound, It seems to do this when it is rainy and windy. Maybe just a coincidence?

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:57 PM (Merged)

KHLOW2008

MECHANIC
41,814 POSTS

Hi j.wright,

If the engine can be cranked, then the battery should be ok.

When it could not start, you need to verify if it is ignition or fuel related.

Get some ideas from the following links and see what the results are and we can continue from there.

https://www.2carpros.com/kpages/first_things.htm

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:57 PM (Merged)

MOMKAT

MEMBER
1 POST
2001 HONDA ACCORD
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
80,000 MILES

Our car was just fine last night for a trip to the movies and dinner. This morning at 9:30am it wouldn't start. The engine is turning and power is going to the radio etc. Tried to jumpstart it anyway but that didn't work. The brake pedal won't push down also. We live in Utah and it snowed some last night but we haven't had problems with it in the cold before.

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

BRUCE HUNT

MECHANIC
3,754 POSTS

You need to the wire off the plugs one at a time and see if there is any spark coming from the power packs. If not, then you might have a cam or crank sensor that is out. If there is spark and strong spark, see if the vehicle is getting fuel in to the cylinders. Try starting it and then pull out a plug quickly to see if it has fuel on it or is wet with gas.

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

ZDAILY

MEMBER
26 POSTS
2001 HONDA ACCORD
2.3L
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
150,000 MILES

But the gear shift and fuel pump do not engage either. I feel like I am missing a ground wire somewhere. I was able to move the main ground cable around before to make it act correctly, and fire.

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,747 POSTS

Welcome to 2CarPros.

If the starter engages and turns the engine but it doesn't start, the first thing we need to determine is if there is spark and fuel getting to the engine. Here are a few links to get us started:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

This next one is related to the pump. I realize you said it isn't engaging, but check to see if anything is there. Also, see if the engine starts for a couple seconds using starting fluid. If it does, then we can confirm it is fuel related.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

Let me know what you find. Also, let me know what is meant by the shifter doesn't engage.

Take care,

Joe

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

LANAKI

MEMBER
4 POSTS
2001 HONDA ACCORD

Mileage: 85,472

I just purchased the car yesterday. It came with one of those aftermarket dashboard security light-up devices that was hot spliced into the large white wire from the ignition under the steering wheel. It was also wired to a toggle switch the previous owner had installed to turn it off and on, and it was grounded to the metal of the dash support. Anyway, the salesman said he didn't think that system was working. The unit that sits on the dash was brittle so I decided to remove the entire thing. I had to cut the wire to remove it and then as I did, sparks flew and the short melted all the wires attached to the unit, the car filled with smoke and the stench of burning plastic. I scrambled to disconnect the battery before the car caught fire.
I removed all the wiring for the unit and noted that wherever the wiring had been placed, the remnants of the melted wire was still stuck. Anyway, I reattached the battery cable and all the lights, door locks, radio, power seats, and windows all work. The car willl not crank and no dashlights come on. The ignition light (where the key inserts) comes on and the buzzer that warns the key is in the ignition sounds. I have checked all fuses and they seem to be okay. Any clues, please? I'm a stay-at-home dad with two toddlers and we could just barely afford to purchase this car. I am so upset with myself and cannot afford to take it to the dealer.

Mahalo!

Lanaki

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

BRUCE HUNT

MECHANIC
3,754 POSTS

Is there spark at the plugs? I suspect that in pulling out the system you have a wire that was cut during the installation of the security system and routed through that box. I would be pulling the dash area apart and checking every wire that comes from the ignition switch to see if I am correct.

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

LANAKI

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Aloha bruce,

thank you for your reply. When you ask if there is spark at the plugs, are you referring to the spark plugs? And which "that box" are you referring to? Forgive my ignorance, I just want to make sure I am understanding you properly.
Also, I was in error when I reported that the windows and radio are working. Anything that requires the key to be turned in the ignition to function, does not. The clock is working as are the power seats, door locks, all lights and horn.
Mahalo!

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

BRUCE HUNT

MECHANIC
3,754 POSTS

I meant the part that fried. I believe you have added enough with your correction to point to the ignition switch. Check those wires, make sure that all wires are insulated well. If that car does not turn over and considering the fuses are good and the proximity of the meltdown, I point to the switch.

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

LANAKI

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Someone has suggested to me the battery may have undergone some cell damage. That though the lights come on, there may not be sufficient power to crank the engine. If that is the case, wouldn't the dashboard display lights (engine, oil, SRS etc.) Still come on?

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

LANAKI

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Hey bruce,

many thanks for your advice. A friend came over with a continuity tester and we discovered a 50 amp fuse under the hood blown. Replaced it and all is well! Whew! "How do you spell relief?"

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Monday, September 28th, 2020 AT 1:58 PM (Merged)

MSINGH