No crank, no start?

Hi,

That appears to be related to the starter or the neutral safety switch. The lights inside turning off is normal when the key is in the start position.

First, see if it will start if you place the transmission in neutral. If there is no change, I need you to locate the starter relay in the under-hood junction box. Switch it with a different one having the same part number and see if that changes things. Also, confirm the ignition 1 fuse is good and has power to and from it. Also, in the under-hood junction box.

If there is still no change, at the starter motor, there will be a smaller gauge purple wire. The wire will have no power until the key is in the start position. Have a helper turn the key to the start position while you check for voltage at that wire. If there is voltage, the battery cables are clean and tight, and everything is properly attached at the starter motor, the starter will need to be replaced.

I attached the wiring schematic below so that you have a reference. Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

Hi Joe,

I have confirmed that the relay and the fuses and the engine fuse box are okay. I put the truck in neutral and it didn't start. I got a new starter and there is no power to the purple wire when the key is turned to start the car. How do I research and see why the purple wire has no power?

Best regards,

Ron

Hi,

Here is what I need you to try. Remove the starter relay. On the relay you will see a number identifying each of the connector pins. Locate numbers 87 and 30 and determine which connectors in the box they go to.

Take a jumper wire and jump power from pin 30 to 87. When you do this, it sends power directly to the starter S post (purple wire) and the starter should engage. Do this and let me know what you find. If there are no issues and the key is in the run position, the engine should start.

By doing this, I can determine if there is an issue at the relay or if the PCM isn't providing a ground to actuate the relay.

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.

Hi Joe,

I did jump the 87 and 30 and it didn't start. When I did it there was like a spark and smoke came out of the bottom of the fuse box. What does that indicate?

Ron

Hi,

If there was no response from the starter, but you saw smoke from under the fuse box, it sounds like there is a short preset. I checked through two different manuals and neither shows the removal process, but it should be straight forward.

Make sure the battery is disconnected first, and then remove the fuse/relay box and inspect the wiring under it. See if there is any evidence of a short, broken wire, or connector issue.

Let me know.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I got under the fuse box but I am trying to get the purple wire out from under the fuse box. How do you go about getting these types of electrical plug out of the box. I don't want to break it. See photos, my finger is pointing to the one I am trying to remove.

Hi,

The connector you are pointing at appears to be black. Is that correct? As far as removal, take a small screwdriver and depress the center of the connector and it should pull out. Also, make sure the purple wire is in good condition.

Let me know.

Joe

Hi Joe,

No, the connector that I was pointing at wasn't black. I was able to get the purple wire out of the fuse box and tested for continuity and there was no break in the wire. I put everything back together and tried to start by jumping 87 and 30. It didn't start. I have confirmed that 87 has power. There wasn't any spark or smoke when I did this now and I didn't find any indication of broken wires under the fuse box. What would be the next thing to check?

Hi,

If the starter now engages but the engine doesn't run, I need you to try something.

First, see if the engine will start if you use starting fluid. If it does and then stalls, we know it is a fuel related issue. If there is no change, I need you to check for spark at the plugs.

Here is a link that explains how to check:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-for-ignition-spark

Try that and let me know what you find.

Joe

Joe,

The starter does not engage when I turn the key. I don't hear anything from the engine. Do you think it could be something in the cab, neutral safety switch, PCM?

Ron

It could be related to the neutral safety switch. Did you try starting it in neutral? Also, did the starter engage when you jumped the relay?

Also, let me know if you were able to perform all of the tests on the relay circuit.

Joe

No start jumping 87 to 30. I think it could be the ignition switch. Can you please send me a wire diagram of the ignition switch so I can test it out?

Hi Joe,

Here is what I know. I was in the parking lot and turned the key two times to start it, and it didn't start. The third time it started. I have confirmed that there isn't a brake in the purple wire to the starter. I bought a new relay for the ignition switch and the relay isn't clicking. There is power to the 87 post but it isn't being transferred to the 30 post. My battery is charged at 12.65 v. It seems me that something up stream of the starter relay. I've seen a few videos on YouTube that the ignition switch can cause this problem. My engine doesn't respond to the key being turned. Since it started with me having to turn the key three times to get it started, do you think it could be the ignition switch? If so, can you use send me a wired diagram so I can test it?

Ron

Hi,

Power should be present at pin 30 from the ignition A fuse. For power to reach pin 30, the primary side of the relay needs to be completed. So, if you have power at pin 30 but nothing is present at 87 with the key in the start position, the problem is likely on the primary side.

Now, we need to check the primary side. With the key in the start position, check if power becomes present at pin 85. If it does, then I need you to check for continuity to ground via pin 86. Pin 86 is a ground and doesn't require the key to be in any specific position.

Let me know what you find.

Take care,

Joe

See pic below.

Hi Joe, I did the test, there was no power on pin 85. What is the next step?

Ron

Hi Joe,

I found what I thought was a grounding screw for the relay. In the wiring diagram you sent it said it was in the engine harness. I have attached a photo of it. I got the screw out and took some 40-grit sandpaper and cleaned off the small wire and large wire connector and the area on the engine block where they attached. I put a wire into pin 85 and had my wife turn the key. Each time she turned it my test light came on. So, I now have confirmed that there is power. In the photo provided, is that the ground for the relay? What would be the next step? The truck isn't starting when the key is turned.

Hi,

If you had a wire in pin 85 and used a test light, where did you have a ground for the test light? I ask because if you get power to pin 85 and pin 86 has continuity to ground, the primary side of the relay should be complete. When that happens, an electromagnetic field is created which forces the secondary side to close (power between pins 30 and 87) and sends power to the purple wire at the starter. (I hope that made sense).

If that is happening, recheck the purple wire on the starter to make sure it has power with the key in the start position. If it does, suspect the starter is the problem.

Do you now have continuity to ground between pin 86 and a body ground or the battery negative?

Let me know.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I had the wire in pin 85 and I attached my test light and touched the grounding screw in the photo. There was a small wire and a bigger wire attached to the engine block. As I said before I cleaned the connectors with 40 grit sandpaper and the area where they attached. I felt like that screw was the grounding wire for the relay. When my wife turned the key, the test light turned on. Am I correct that that ground was for the relay?

Since the truck didn't start when I turned the key, I looked at the wiring diagram in my Chilton manual. I saw that one way the starter worked way from the neutral safety switch. Can you tell me how I can confirm if that it is a problem? And since my truck didn't start, I assume that there wasn't any power to the starter. And it is a new starter.

Hi,

Using the test light, put a paper clip in 86. Place the alligator clip side of the test light on that paper clip. Then probe pin 85 with the light and have your wife turn the key. Does the light turn on?

As far as the neutral safety switch is concerned, see if it will start in neutral. Also, there is a yellow wire at the switch that should have power with the key in the start position. However, if you have power at pin 85, the switch is working. Power must run through the safety switch before it reaches pin 85.

I have a feeling that pin 86 doesn't have continuity to ground. Therefore, it isn't completing the circuit for the primary side of the relay. If possible, try the test I mentioned above. If it tests good, either we have a bad relay, no power to the secondary (which you already checked and is good via power at pin 30), or an open between pin 87 and the starter. But you already checked that and the wire is good. That leaves the only thing left. A ground for the primary.

The ground is G132 and located at the front right of the engine block. I can't tell in the pic which side of the engine I'm looking at. It appears to be the left (driver's side).

Let me know.

Joe

It is in on the bottom of the engine block on the driver's side. This is the looking at the truck from the front. I will look for one on the passenger side.

Hi,

When they say left and right sides, it is from the driver's seat. So, in this case, it should be on the passenger side of the vehicle.

Also, it is really important to test for a ground for the primary side of the relay.

Let me know.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I have searched for two days trying to find a ground on the engine on the passenger side (unless it is a ground on the fire wall). Can you confirm where the ground is in a 2001 Silverado 1500HD?

I took my starter out and confirmed that it is good. But I still don't have power to the trigger wire to the starter.

Best regards,

Ron

Hi Ron, I looked up info on the ground location and on a different schematic it is showing me two different places. Ugh! It gets frustrating. I attached both pics so you can see what I'm finding.

Also, (I can't remember) but did you check the connector pin for ground to see if there is continuity to ground? It should be present at all times.

Let me know.

Joe

See pics below.

I found it. I will have to take the intake manifold off to get some room to get to it. I will let you know what I find out.

Hi,

Anything to make things a little more difficult. Let me know if I can help.

Take care,

Joe

Hi Joe,

I got the intake manifold off and got to the ground and tested it. It was at the very back on the left hand side of the engine block. The wire isn't cut and has continuity from the connection at the ground to the 85 post in the fuse box. It was getting dark and I called it a day. I didn't take a detailed looking at where it is connected to the engine block. Tomorrow I will take some 40 grit sandpaper and cleaned the area where it attach to the engine block and the connector. Is there anything else I should do?

Ron

Joe,

Today I took some 40-grit sandpaper and sanded the area where the ground attached to the engine block. When I attempted to sand the attachment on the end of the wire, it came off the end of wire.

I attached a new end to the wire and then tested it for continuity and it tested fine. I have attached it to the engine block and reinstalled my intake manifold. I put on a new shift cable and when I tried to put it on neutral, there was an issue. So, I need to get that fixed before I can start the car.

Ron

Hi,

That isn't too uncommon. They corrode and break. Interestingly, when checked for continuity, they test good. However, when a load is placed on it, the ground fails.

Let me know what you find.

Joe

Joe,

After all that the truck will not start. So, I have confirmed that there is no break in the line to the ground and the trigger wire. I got a new starter, and I tested it with some jumper cables and a screwdriver, and it works and I have a new relay for the fuse box.

What should I check next?

Joe,

Today I went out and with the key not in the ignition switch, I jumped 30 and 87 and the start engages. To confirm that it was the started I took the purple wire off and it had power. So the starter engages when 30 and 87 are jumped when the key isn't in the ignition switch. Do you think this points to the PCM?

Ron

Hi Joe,

After seeing that there was power to the trigger wire on the starter, I decided to put it back on the starter and asked my wife to turn the key while I jump 30 and 87. When we did that, the dashboard lost all the lights in the interior. I got into the side electrical panel and was searching for a blown fuse, and I didn't find any. But while I was doing the, the dash came back, and it dinged when the key was turned. I asked my wife to come out and try again. When I jumped the wife from 30 to 87 the same thing happened again the interior lights went out. When I tested the post in 30, I got 12.57 amps there was power now in 87, somewhere about 8 to 9 amps. Can you please answer me and give me your opinion about what is going on?

Hi,

What you described sounds like a loose or corroded connection at the battery, the engine ground, or even at the starter. Take a look at this link and let me know what you find:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/everything-goes-dead-when-engine-is-cranked

Let me know.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I cleaned up the post on the battery.
I put the new relay in and tried to start the truck but it didn't start. I had my wife start the truck while jumping between 30 and 87 and the truck started. So, cleaning off the grounds at least helps with the truck to start. So, what does that mean if it won't start with the relay but jumping 30 to 87?


Another thing is that I bought an AC Delco transmission cable. But it came without a retaining clip. I can't find any videos of how to install it. Do you know how?

Ron

Hi Joe,

I got the shift cable fixed. So all I need is next steps to go with my truck starting by jumping 30 and 87. Does that point to the PCM?

Ron

Hi Ron,

If the relay is good and jumping it allows the starter to engage, we need to check the other side of the relay, the primary side.

With the key in the start position, check pin 85 for power. If there is power, confirm pin 86 has continuity to ground.

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.

When we turn the key there is power to 86 it lights up. But there isn't continuity to ground at 87. I had continuity at 87 before when I had the intake manifold off before. How do I go about fixing the ground?

Hi,



Relay primary side are pins 85 and 86,

With the key in the start position, pin 85 should have power. Pin 86 is the ground source for the primary side of the relay and should have continuity to ground at all times.

Relay secondary side are pins 30 and 87

Pin 30 should have power at all times. Pin 87 is what connects to the starter motor, so you won't have power there until the relay is reinstalled and actuated by the primary. Pin 87 isn't a ground. It's the power supply to the S terminal on the starter motor.

Is that what you found? I ask because the pin numbers you mentioned are for different sides of the relay.

Let me know.

Joe

Okay Joe,

Pin 85 had power when the key was turned. Pin 86 did not have continuity. It had continuity the last time I had the intake manifold off. You said before when a load was put on it the ground would fail. How do I go about getting the ground fixed, so it won't fail?

Ron

Hi,

If you located where it is mounted, confirm there is no damage to the connector or anything that would prevent it from having a solid ground. If it appears good, then chances are the problem is in the wire itself. There could be damage that you don't see under the insulation.

The only thing you can do is determine the issue with the ground wire and repair it. You may need to replace the wire itself. Actually, if you question if it is good, run a new one from the box to a known good ground. If I recall, you did find the ground at the rear of the engine. Is that correct? If so and it is in good condition, it is likely the wire itself that has failed or where the connection is made in the box.

Let me know.

Joe

Hi Joe,

I cut the ground wire to where I could detect continuity and then added wire to the end, testing continuity as I went along. I put the truck back together in the engine compartment and test continuity at the ground. I put a new relay in the fuse box and turned the key. The truck didn't start. I had my wife turn the key and I could feel the relay clicking when the key was turned on and off. I checked continuity to ground and it was positive.

Looking at power I, I have power at Pin 30 and when the key was turned at 87. I have confirmed that there is continuity to the ground and the relay is clicking when the key is turned.

Now that the relay is clicking what would cause the truck not to start?

Ron