Instrument cluster not working properly

Tiny
DGREGORY70
  • MEMBER
  • 2013 FORD F-150
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 83,000 MILES
I was driving and while stopped at a light flipped on my turn indicator. After making the turn it didn't shut itself off and had to turn it off manually. After driving a few miles and stopping again, when I started moving, I noticed that my gauge cluster was partially not working; the speedometer was zero, tachometer was stuck at 2,500 and not moving. I also had very low power while trying to accelerate. I then pulled over, shut the vehicle off and restarted and everything was fine.

I'm not sure if the initial turn signal issue had anything to do with this but I didn't want to leave it out. Any idea what this could be or where to start looking? The only work that's been done recently was the battery and starter were replaced about 6-7 months ago and haven't had any issues since then.

Thanks
Sunday, April 10th, 2022 AT 10:44 AM

26 Replies

Tiny
KASEKENNY
  • MECHANIC
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More than likely these are not related but we need to start with checking for codes.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/checking-a-service-engine-soon-or-check-engine-light-on-or-flashing

Your vehicle operates all these functions on the cluster via what is called a communication network or CAN. Here is a guide that will talk about this:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/can-scan-controller-area-network-easy

If these are related, then I suspect we have a BCM or other wiring issues, but it would not cause the turn signals to remain on as this is a mechanical issue in the clock spring that will release the turn signal lever.

So, let's start with any codes and we can go from there.

Thanks
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Monday, April 11th, 2022 AT 7:29 AM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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There is currently no CEL on currently and I didn’t see one during the time things started acting up. So, should I go ahead and check with a scan tool? I know there are sometimes pending codes that show up, could this be one of those times? The CAN network is new to me, and my code reader doesn’t do any of that as far as I know. Is the $35 reader linked in the article you sent me adequate? Should I check that as well even without the CEL light on?
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Monday, April 11th, 2022 AT 8:17 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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Please allow me to stick my nose in here for a moment. Your Engine Computer can detect well over 2,000 defects. Some are for breaks or shorts in electrical circuits it runs. Some are for incorrect sensor signal voltages, and some are for engine operating conditions. Only about half of those defects could possibly have an adverse effect on emissions, or are minor but could turn serious if you aren't aware of them. Those are the fault codes that turn on the Check Engine light. You can have other fault codes set that don't turn the Check Engine light on. That's why Keeny K wants you to read the codes.

As far as "stored", "active", pending", or some other description, that varies among manufacturers, models, and years. All Engine Computers have a long list of what it takes to set a certain fault code. One of those conditions is a defect usually must show up for a specific length of time, or a certain number of events within a given amount of time. This is where a code might be listed as "pending". The computer is watching that parameter but isn't ready to set the code yet. All computers watch those things, but on older models that wasn't displayed on scanners or code readers.

The other point of interest, at least on cars, is Ford's most intelligent, (complicated) computer is the instrument cluster. Along with most other computers on your truck, the cluster can also set diagnostic fault codes. All of the most inexpensive code readers will read codes in the Engine Computer. Some of the newer ones, still under $100.00, can access Anti-Lock Brake Computers and maybe a few other computers. I haven't seen one yet that can access Instrument Clusters. To read the fault codes in that computer you are likely to need a scanner. I bought one of the more popular scanners through eBay for about half the price of a new model. They go down in value very quickly due to the extremely high cost of annual updates. Look for a Snapon Solus Edge or something similar. It's real easy to find one that's updated to 2014 to 2018. That's all you need to work on your 2013 model.

The alternative is to take the truck to a shop to have the codes read. It's important to not disconnect the battery or run it dead as that can erase the codes in some computers, then that valuable information will be lost.

Kenny K will be back soon to continue helping you. We're waiting to learn what it takes to solve this.
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Tuesday, April 12th, 2022 AT 1:42 AM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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Thank you for that additional information, very helpful. It also leads me to additional questions. Looking at the snap on tool, they all appear to be at least $1,000.00, which is more than I’d want to spend for something I wouldn’t use very much (I hope). If I’m looking for other scan tools that can read the instrument cluster, what terminology am I looking for in the specs or features? Is it just called the instrument cluster? Will the Forscan software read the instrument cluster?
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Tuesday, April 12th, 2022 AT 6:24 AM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
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The only scanners I'm familiar with are the DRB3 dealer's tool for my older Chrysler products, and the Solus Edge for my newer truck. For anything else, a guy would have to read the sales pitches to see what they cover. When I was searching on eBay a few years ago, once I found something of interest, I did a Google search for the manufacturer's web site and found the details there.

I use the term "instrument cluster" because everyone knows what that is. Every manufacturer has their own terminology, and then they turn them into acronyms to be sure we become more confused. I also see "IP" for instrument panel.

To expound on the Solus Edge a little, four years ago, a new one cost $4000.00, then I think you had to pay extra for Asian imports, and again for European imports. One of those two additional packages includes Harley Davidson and a few motorhomes, but no heavy trucks. That is also available separately. Snapon is very proud of their annual updates. I'm told they charge $1000.00 per year, and you can't skip any years. What I mean is if you have one, like mine, that's updated through 2018, you have to buy the 2019 update before you can buy the 2020 update, then you can buy the 2021 update, all at $1000.00 each. Independent repair shops have to buy every update to remain current, but you and I only need to have enough updates to cover the vehicles we're going to use it on.

Some shops have more than one of these, and they only buy the updates for one of them. The out-of-date scanners work fine on older cars and trucks, but once they become four or five years out-of-date, it's cheaper for them to just buy a new scanner. They come with the latest update. That's good news for us, because being out-of-date lowers the value to the shop owners. That's where we can find them cheaper on eBay.

There's was a fellow in IL who always had three or four of these listed at a time. I got mine from him for $1800.00 updated to current at that time. That was in 2018. There were others available from other sellers for as little as $700.00, but as I recall, the oldest was still updated through 2014. That would be sufficient for your truck.

Once you have a scanner, you'll wonder how you got along without it. Some of the better $30.00 code readers can display sensor data too. I bought one for my cousin, then found out the data updates as slow as once every two or three seconds. That's way too slow when watching for momentary glitches. Professional scanners update their displays a couple of times per second.

Scanners are "bidirectional", meaning they can receive data from all the computers and they can talk back to them. That lets you command a radiator fan motor to turn on, for example. That allows you to take voltage readings in an inoperative circuit. You can activate or turn off features like speed-sensitive door locks and things like that. The Snapon also has a section for "Code Tips" where they give you diagnostic advice for each code number.

I've also used a Genysis scanner a few times years ago, but I don't know enough about them to talk intelligently, other than the owners liked them. There's a lot of other aftermarket scanners, but once you read the advertising data, you'll know more about them than I do.
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Tuesday, April 12th, 2022 AT 8:44 AM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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Thanks again for the explanation. I would like to have it, just don’t want to spend that amount right now. I have an older scan tool that does a lot and I’ve borrowed better ones that can graph freeze frame info, but I was unaware of the CAN network or the instrument panel computer. I’m going to go ahead and check if anything shows up with my scanner and then see about upgrading to something that can potentially provide more information.

The Forscan system, as I understand it is a software program for Fords, you can download free trials and then rent or buy if you need it. You do need to purchase a cable to go from the OBD port to your laptop. It looks like it can do a lot of things, but I’ll need to research more. Thank you again.
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Tuesday, April 12th, 2022 AT 10:24 AM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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  • 46 POSTS
So wanted to let you know that today it happened again twice. Once this morning and then again, this afternoon. Was on the freeway both times, the cluster partially went out, the tach was still working, and the radio stayed on. Was able to keep driving to the next exit both times, but after stopping at the ramp it didn’t want to accelerate, felt like it was in limp mode. After pulling into a gas station and shutting it off and starting again, everything was fine.

Still researching scan tools but haven’t been able to do much with it being Easter weekend. Just wanted to get this info to you I case it helped clarify anything.
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Saturday, April 16th, 2022 AT 7:56 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Thanks for the update. As Randy has stated, the use of a scan tool is going to be pretty important on this one.

Thanks for keeping us updated.
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Sunday, April 17th, 2022 AT 9:24 AM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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  • 46 POSTS
One more thing, while researching I found something about entering engineering mode or test mode through the instrument cluster. I tried it and it showed 2 permanent trouble codes? $C40186 and $C40100. I don't know if the dollar sign matters or not, but that's what showed up. Anyway, I can't find any information at all on those codes. Any idea what they are or mean?
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Sunday, April 17th, 2022 AT 10:19 AM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Those numbers are in hexadecimal and do not have any relative meaning.

I am sure there is an engineering table somewhere that tells us what that means but that is not published because they are considered informational codes and not trouble codes.

Basically, trouble codes are there to help figure out the issue with a vehicle. These informational codes are there so that if an engineer wants to gather more info about something they are looking at then these would be there. They do not indicate an issue. If there was an issue, we would have trouble codes along with them.
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Sunday, April 17th, 2022 AT 7:13 PM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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Okay, so I downloaded some software called Forscan that does a lot of different things. Even lets me do some tests and if I upgrade the software, I can do things that would probably get me into lots of trouble.

Anyway, I scanned the truck and got several DTC's. I'm hoping you can decipher them and let me know what the issue is. I've included screenshots of each of them with the provided info. They don't all seem to go to the same issue, but several of them talk about an ECM/PCM issue.

Let me know.
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Wednesday, April 20th, 2022 AT 1:30 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Okay. That really helps. Basically, this is telling you that the PCM or the cluster are the issue.

So that means we need to run through this info and find out which it is. However, to your point, there are other modules reporting the PCM is sending invalid data so that means the likely cause is the PCM.

However, I suspect the turn signal issue is not related at all based on this info.
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Wednesday, April 20th, 2022 AT 2:02 PM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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So, are you saying I need to try and do the tests listed in the images you included? Is that the next step? What's your feeling on this, is it something I'm going to be able to figure out and repair or is it most likely going to need to end up in a shop before it's all done?
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Wednesday, April 20th, 2022 AT 2:08 PM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
  • MEMBER
  • 46 POSTS
So, starting to look through your documents, step one, I already did a Key on engine off test. IT did record a DTC, P1464:00.
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Wednesday, April 20th, 2022 AT 2:13 PM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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So i'm supposed to refer to 303-14, what is that?
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Wednesday, April 20th, 2022 AT 2:14 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Correct. Since we have codes to go off of, we need to follow that testing. As for if you will be able to do it, I would not be able to answer that. It is not a heavy diagnosis on this, but it will require some more info.

I would read through it and see what you think but based on this, if you have other PCM codes it tells you to fix those. Which I just realized I did not attach the testing for the PCM code which is what you start with.

If you have an issue with the output shaft speed sensor then that will cause the issues you are seeing but as I stated, the PCM is likely the cause which will cause this code as well.

However, read through all these attachments and see if this is something you feel like you can tackle. If not, then a shop would be the best call.
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Wednesday, April 20th, 2022 AT 2:19 PM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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Sorry for being dense in this but I’m slightly confused. The first pinpoint testing you sent me said to do a KOEO test which I did, and it had one doc come back, p1464 which seems to be an ac issue, probably because the defroster was on, I’ll need to check. But because there was a dtc, I need to refer to 303-14. Is that what you just sent me? Cause it looks like all those pages deal with a speed sensor, I think. Is that correct? I got kind of lost from the pinpoint test to the pages you just sent me.
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Wednesday, April 20th, 2022 AT 2:53 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Okay. Yes. Sorry for the confusion. I sent that info prior to you sending me the results of the self-test with the P1464. I did not see that info when I sent this other testing.

Hopefully, this will straighten it out. You have the U0401 codes and that tells you to run the tests that you ran and got the P1464. However, as you will see below that was most likely due to the system not being turned off. So that is an erroneous code. So the U0401 is telling us to address any other PCM codes which would be the OSS code. That is what I attached next. So I would suggest running through the testing for the speed sensor code and see if that leads to the PCM needing to be replaced. That is the likely cause as the other modules that are setting the same code against the PCM.

Hope this helps.
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Wednesday, April 20th, 2022 AT 4:18 PM
Tiny
DGREGORY70
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  • 46 POSTS
Good morning. So, I was able to road test the truck today and check the PID. I found an online Chilton's manual and according to it, for my vehicle I needed to monitor the VSS
PID for the P0722 DTC. I set up the scanner to monitor the VSS and OSS_F just in case. The VSS modulated up and down while driving, the OSS stayed flat. So, If I did this correctly does this mean the sensor is working correctly? If that's the case, what's your gut feeling, do I need to run through the remaining pinpoint tests or just replace the PCM/ECM? I can do the tests, but there's not a lot of room while lying under the truck. If I do need to go that route, can you look at the two attached pictures and let me know which one is actually the VSS? I thought it was on the driver side near the output shaft, but those wires went to an O2 sensor. So, I'm thinking it's the one on the passenger side. Also, on the passenger side it looks like the wires are pretty thin and kind of exposed when going into the transmission or module (look at the yellow wire if you can zoom in). Is that correct, wouldn't there be some sort of boot or something to protect them from the road and the elements?

First picture is the driver side, second is passenger.

Thanks
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Saturday, April 23rd, 2022 AT 8:07 AM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Just to be clear, when the OSS stayed flat, do you mean it just did not jump up and down like the VSS, but it has a rise and fall that was smooth in relation to the vehicle speed?

The reason I ask is because this code is telling you that the OSS gave an input of 0 RPM when the other sensor was indicating that there was RPM.

I am attaching the info for what you did, and it basically is the first part. Notice how it says both sensors needs to rise and fall with the vehicle speed.

As for the connector, this is the larger transmission harness, and I am attaching the pin info.

I think the sensors on this transmission are internal to the transmission pan.

Do you have the 6R80 transmission?
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Saturday, April 23rd, 2022 AT 12:07 PM

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