Crank no start

Disconnecting the battery never solves anything, and it erases any diagnostic fault codes, so that valuable information was lost, if there were any codes.

this guide will help us

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

"Crank" and "turn over" are the same thing. By the parts you replaced, I can assume it cranks okay. What you need to do now is determine if the automatic shutdown, (ASD) relay is turning on. Find the wire that is the same color at the coil pack and at every injector. That typically is a dark green / orange wire, and back-probe that any place. You can use a digital voltmeter, but they often do not respond fast enough, so a test light works better. You will see twelve volts on that wire for one second when you turn on the ignition switch. What is important is if that voltage comes back during cranking. If it does not, the signal is missing from the camshaft position sensor or the crankshaft position sensor.

Very often a fault code for either the cam or crank sensor signal will only set while the stalled engine is coasting to a stop. Once erased, it may not set again during cranking. Then you need to use a scanner to view live data to see if either signal is missing. I use a Chrysler DRB3 scanner. That lists each sensor with a "No" or "Present". I do not know what that would look like on other scanners, but I am pretty sure they have a way to show the same information.

Electrical problem
2003 Chrysler PT Cruiser 4 cyl Front Wheel Drive Manual

car died-replaced camshaft and crankshaft sensors
therei is no voltage to the coil..there is 12.65 voltage at asd relay but no volage at the other terminals on the coil connectors
The camshaft and crankshaft sensors have 5.1 vilts

Hi Sprocit. Welcome to the forum. When are you measuring the voltage on the coil? It should only have battery voltage for one second after turning on the ignition switch, then it will come back during engine rotation, (cranking or running).

caradiodoc

the middle terminal with key on reads12.22 when cranking 11.22

So you DO have voltage to the coil. Do you have spark? If you do, but still have a no-start, have you checked for fuel pressure?

caradiodoc

I don't have a gauge to check the fuel pressure but I can smell gas

If we're assuming the fuel pump and injectors are working, that means the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors are working and the automatic shutdown relay is turning on. If you have no spark, the likely suspects are the coil or the driver circuit in the Engine Computer. By the way, is this a single overhead cam engine?

caradiodoc

The camshaft position sensor was replaced @ 201,000. 2 weeks later, the car stalled in traffic and would not restart.No DTCs presented. There was no spark at the #1 plug, the tube was half full with oil. Replaced valve cover gasket, tube seals, plugs and wires. No spark.
Broke crankshaft position sensor receptacle while removing connector, replaced sensor.Still no spark, no codes.Tested starter due to never having heard car start, and was not impressed by sound of cranking. Starter and battery both checked sat.
No +12vdc @ coil with key on. Jumpered ASD relay, and saw +12vdc @ coil center pin. No start. Swapped horn relay (known good0 no start, no +12vdc. Fuel pump runs, pressure @ fuel rail.Voltage drop @ starter w/in limits. Replaced PCM w/ known good, no start, same conditions, no codes.
Timing belt is intact, pistons cycle with starter. If the presumed original timing belt (owner has never replaced belt since 75K),had jumped timing, I would expect to see an out of sync code> Nope
I've gone to alldata, as Haynes manual has no engine control info.I have schematics, have exhausted all troubleshooting ideas.Could the flywheel be worn to the point it is not spinning the engine fast enough, and setting an ASD shutdown command?
What parameters, exactly, cause the ASD relay to shut off? The owner really likes the car, which is in surprisingly good condition, and really can't afford to replace it now. All help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

What and where is the driver circuit? I replaced the coil

You did not mention anything about the Crank Position Sensor and from symptom description, that should be the component you should concentrate on to get the ignition coil signal. Btw was the ignition coil tested or substituted?

The coil and injector drivers are switching transistors inside the Engine Computer.

Is this a single or double overhead cam engine?

caradiodoc

Since there is no B+ at the coil,I have not considered the coil as a possible problem/solution. Both cam and crank sensors are new. I am pretty much clueless as to the purpose or operation of the ASD relay circuit. It looks like the PCM sends a ground signal to collapse the coil, but I don't understand the grounding circuit itself. I assume the ground circuit for the injectors is working, as there is fuel in the intake runners.

it is a double verhead cam engine 2.4 cyl standard transmission. I have 12 volts at the center teriminal connector going onto the coil and 12 volts on no1 primary terminal connector but no volts coming our of coil while cranking.... How do I test the coil andinjector drivers and are they replaceble or is it best just to buy a new engine computer?

When the PCM is powered by the ignition switch, it would ground the ASD relay via connector C3 terminal # 2 (Dark Blue/Yellow wire). Check for continuity between the PCM and ASD relay for the wire.

I should clarify, . . . the drivers are transistor circuits inside the Engine Computer. They aren't something you can replace or test. You found the 12 volt supply to the coils. The other end of each coil is grounded by the driver transistors. Current flows through those turned-on transistors and a magnetic field builds up slowly in the coil primaries. At the proper time, the transistors turn off and current flow has to stop instantly. That forces a rapid, sudden collapse of the magnetic field which induces the high voltage spark. If you are finding 0 volts on a coil wire, that circuit is likely working. The voltage only pops up to 12 volts for a few milliseconds. That's much too short to picked up by a voltmeter. If you find 12 volts on the coil wire constantly, that circuit is never turning on. The most likely cause would typically be the Engine Computer but it would be smart to measure the voltage on that wire at the computer's connector in case there is simply a break in that wire. A break in the wire will leave you with 12 volts on the coil wire.

The reason I asked about the engine is the symptoms you originally described match what happened to me on a single cam engine. When the timing belt jumps one tooth, the Check Engine light will turn on. When it jumps three teeth, the valves will hit the pistons causing major damage, but the computer will shut the engine down before that happens. If the belt jumps two teeth, that's when the computer stops the engine but you will often find one coil still firing intermittently.

A hard-to-find problem is a sheared off dowel pin between the camshaft and its sprocket. The sprocket turns a little on the cam mimicking a jumped timing belt. I never heard of that happening on the twin cam engine. Without doing other tests, it does sound like the Engine Computer needs to be replaced.

caradiodoc

C3-2 is unpopulated. Alldata shows ASD relay control leaving the PCM on C3-3,via a DKBLU/YEL wire which rings to E2 and E4 on the ASD socket. All the terminals on C3 for the ASD relay ring to the sockets they're supposed to on the relay socket.

Sorry for the typo, it should be C3 # 3. Do you have continuity between the PCM and ASD relay ( E2 of relay to C3 #3 of PCM)?

While driving car just died. I have checked the codes and received a p0016 and p0325.I have replaced the knock sensor and camshaft position sensor and the codes cleared. Engine will crank but still not turn over. I smell fuel and hear fuel pump turn on. I partially removed the camshaft timing cover to verify the belt was attached. I had my wife try to start the car while watching the belt on the camshafts and the belt and the camshafts did not move. I was able to pull on the timing belt a little and it seems tight.

Help Please

Brian

Everything I've checked has continuity from the PCM. C3 rings to E2 and E4 of the ASD relay socket, which I assume is the coil. The drawing on Alldata is a little confusing, as the coil resembles a resistor.

Go to this walk thru link: https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

What I don't understand is, I jumpered the 30 and 87 sockets on the relay socket ( I'm not sure what E points this corresponds to)and got B+ at the coil and injectors and still no spark at the plugs. What conditions cause the ASD to turn off?

I found that earlier. I have checked everything but compression. Because the camshafts are not turning. In my model car should the camshaft be turning when the crank turns?

That means the PCM is not grounding the circuit for the ASD relay.
You mentioned substituting with a known good PCM, maybe you should retry again.

Wow-if the camshaft is not turning-you won't go nowhere-best check the timing belt/chain

ASD relay should not turn off as long as the PCM is being powered.

ok in the process of checking and changing the timing belt. Few questions...

As far as jacking up the engine I read on a site how to do this, but could you offer me some advice on how this should be done?

Also is there a way I can check to see if the timing belt is lined up right without putting the whole car back together?

Over the past 3 weeks I have been having an issue with my 2003 PT Cruiser GT. I will drive it to work, park in the parking lot, then 9 hours later the battery will be completely dead, (no power, no lights, power locks don't work, nothing at all.) I get a jump and the car starts right up and I'm on my way.

I know the first thing that you'll say is that your battery is bad... I thought this too an since the battery was 4 years old I bought a new one, but again the very next day, the exact same thing happened. So we have a brand new battery and the same issue is occurring. Here are some other notable things.

I live 15 minutes from work after jumping the car, driving it home and letting it sit in the garage over night (12+ hours) the car will start fine in the next morning. I'll drive it to work and then less than 8 hours later the battery is dead.

I have checked and cleaned the battery terminals, and checked the ground straps to make sure they were in good order.

When charged the battery holds a standard 12.4v charge, with the engine running it takes 13.6v from the alternator (so I know that the alternator is not bad). After sitting in the lot for 6 hours the battery is drained down to less than 7v after 9 hours (when I am ready to go home) its less than 2v.

I am not leaving any lights, wipers, radio, or any other electrical loads on while the car is parked. I have NO aftermarket electronics installed (No alarm, remote start, etc) which could account for the problem.

Another interesting and puzzling thing is I can drive the car home park it in the garage and let it sit for 3 or 4 days and it will start right up, but when I drive it to work and let it sit for 6 to 9 hours the battery dies.

The only other thing that I can think of that has recently changed is the temperature, lately (here in Illinois) we have been getting temperatures in the mid to upper 80's and when I am at work the car is in an open lot. Don't know that it makes a difference but it seems that the issues started occurring when the temperature started getting warmer.

Other than this issue I don't have any other problems with the car everything else works fine for an 11 year old car.... well everything else except the A/C but its a Chrysler so your lucky if the AC lasts past 4 years.

I am reasonably sure that there is a sensor which is setting a shutdown command for the relay, or possibly an open in a circuit. It's not helpful that the PCM doesn't light the MIL or set a code for the scanner to read. Do you know of a definitive list of what causes a shutdown to the ASD? The PCM was pirated from a friend of a friends car (under the radar) and is really not accessible.

Never done it-refer to owners manual

Something is putting a drain on the battery, but I can't say why it is only at work. Do this test and let me know what you find.


https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-dead-overnight

See if the following test is of any help.

SSD RELAY CONTROL CIRCUIT

Monitored & Set Conditions

Circuit is monitored with ignition on. Battery voltage above 10 volts. DTC will set if an open or shorted condition is detected in the ASD relay control circuit. This is a one trip fault.

Possible Causes

ASD Operation

(A14) Fused B+ Circuit

ASD Relay Resistance

(K51) ASD Relay Control Circuit Open

(K51) ASD Relay Control Circuit Short To Ground

PCM

Testing

1. Ignition on, engine not running. With the DRBIII(R) scan tool, actuate the ASD Relay. Is the ASD relay operating? If yes, see
INTERMITTENT CONDITION under SELF-DIAGNOSTIC SYSTEM. If no, go to next step.

2. Turn the ignition off. Remove the ASD relay from the Power Distribution Center (PDC). Ignition on, engine not running. Measure the voltage of the (A14) fused B+ circuits in the PDC. Is the voltage above 11.0 volts? If yes, go to next step. If no, repair the (A14) fused B+ circuit. Check and replace any open fuses.

3. Turn the ignition off. Remove the ASD relay from the PDC. Measure the resistance of the ASD relay between the fused B+ terminal and the ASD relay control terminal. Is the resistance between 60-80 ohms? If yes, go to next step. If no, replace the ASD relay.

In testing procedures Alpha/Numeric character in patientness i.e. (K4) designates circuit. After each repair procedure has been completed, reconnect all components. Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER-5 under VERIFICATION TESTS to ensure system is functioning properly.

CAUTION:
Do not probe the PCM harness connectors. Probing the PCM harness connectors will damage the PCM terminals resulting in poor terminal to pin connection. Install Miller Special Tool (8815) to perform diagnosis.

4. Turn the ignition off. Remove the ASD relay from the PDC. Disconnect the PCM harness connectors. Measure the resistance of the (K51) ASD control circuit from the PDC to the appropriate terminal of Miller Special Tool (8815). Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms? If yes, go to next step. If no, repair the open in the (K51) ASD relay control circuit.

5. Turn the ignition off. Remove the ASD relay from the PDC. Measure the resistance between ground and the (K51) ASD relay control circuit in the PDC. Is the resistance below 5.0 ohms? If yes, repair the short to ground in the (K51) ASD relay control circuit. If no, go to next step.

6. Before continuing disconnect the PCM harness connectors and check the related wiring terminals for corrosion, damage or terminal push out. Repair as necessary. Pay particular attention to all power and ground circuits. If there are no possible causes remaining, replace and program the PCM. See PROGRAMMING .

I could rule the world if I could get my hands on a DRBIII or a Miller 8815. I've never seen a circuit with so little information available. I'm just going to tell this lady to bite the bullet and go the stealership.

Thanks for the help.

It is true that information on this is limited and diagnosis is never going to be easy.

Have you tried those steps that do not require the special equipments?

I've done everything possible without the wonder tools. I've plugged in an actron 9185 that is supposed to monitor in real time, and it says it can't communicate with the vehicle. I've tested the new position sensors, done point to point continuity on the wiring harness,and cleaned every electrical contact under the hood. Whatever it is, is beyond me.

I did some additional research and came up with the following.

Chrysler also uses an Auto Shutdown Relay (ASD). The ASD relay routes battery power to the ignition coils, and is energized by the PCM as long as receives signals from both the crankshaft and camshaft position sensors. If the engine stops turning (stalls), the PCM deengerizes the ASD relay and shuts down the ignition system. The ASD relay also supplies battery voltage to the fuel injectors, so when it shuts down it cuts off both ignition and fuel. At the same time, the PCM also deenergizes the fuel pump relay to turn off the fuel pump. For "limp in" capability, the Chrysler system can run with input from the crankshaft position sensor only. The ASD and fuel pump relays are both located in the Power Distribution Center.

I had a feeling it had something to do with the crankshaft position sensor and though the sensor replaced is new, it could be faulty as well. Have the circuit ret5ested. If circuit is good, recheck the CMP circuit as well.

Update 1/3/12. This car has been sitting in my driveway for 5 mos, waiting for the fairies to fix it. Didn't happen, and the owner came up with some cash and towed it to the stealership. The timing belt had stripped 10 or so inches of teeth and slipped timing. The cams stayed in time, and no valve damage occurred. I replaced the timing belt (what fun!!) and reassembled and hit the key. No start. I know as of August all the circuits were intact (continuity). Anybody have any ideas?

After sitting for so long, you would have to go back through the basics again.

Have the compression checked. An idle engine can lose compression when rings dry up.

I don't know if you have an anti-theft relay but on my 1998 sebring, that is what was causing the no spark. You might want to see if thats it.

My transmission light came on one day and i went out to start my car the next day and all the lights came on but it would not do anything else. It gave me code P0700.

I drained the fuel tank, as I figured that 5 months of corn likker sitting in the tank was not a good thing. 5 gallons of gas with no ethanol, and a dose of Chevron Techron, and it fired up with a bit of cranking. Purrs like a 201,000 mile kitten.

Thanks to everyone for their interest and assistance.