Clutch pedal went to the floor

Welcome to 2CarPros.

Either the clutch master cylinder has failed or the slave cylinder. Also, the pressure line between the two may have failed. First, check for evidence of leaks. Most times, you will see which one is bad. Here are directions for both in case you determine which is bad. Considering it worked better for a short time when you worked on the master cylinder, that is my first suspect.

Here are directions for slave replacement. I am hoping this isn't the cause because the trans needs removed to replace it.

PROCEDURES
Clutch Actuator Cylinder Replacement

Removal Procedure


picture 1


1. Disconnect the clutch master cylinder line from the transaxle by removing the C-clip.
2. Remove the transaxle.
3. Remove the clutch actuator cylinder bolts from the transaxle.
4. Remove the clutch actuator cylinder.

Installation Procedure


pic 2



Important: Excessive amounts of lubricant on the input shaft splines can contaminate the clutch disc and cause clutch shudder.

1. Lightly lubricate the inside diameter of the bearing with input shaft lubricant P/N 21005995 or equivalent.
2. Install the clutch actuator cylinder (1) to the transaxle.

Notice: Refer to Fastener Notice in Cautions and Notices.

3. Install the clutch actuator cylinder bolts.
- Tighten the bolts to 10 Nm (89 inch lbs.).
4. Install the transaxle.


pic 3


5. Connect the clutch master cylinder line to the transaxle by pushing it in until it seats.
6. Bleed the clutch hydraulic system.

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PROCEDURES
Clutch Master Cylinder Replacement

Removal Procedure


pic 4


1. Clean the clutch fluid reservoir cap and area around the cap.
2. Remove the clutch fluid reservoir cap and remove enough brake fluid to clear a passage to the clutch master cylinder.
3. Remove the clutch pedal retainer.
4. Remove the clutch master cylinder pushrod from the clutch pedal assembly, 1st design.

pic 5

5. Remove the clutch master cylinder pushrod from the clutch pedal assembly, 2nd design.

pic 6


Notice: Refer to Brake Fluid Effects on Paint and Electrical Components Notice in Cautions and Notices.

6. Place a shop towel under the clutch master cylinder in order to catch any fluid loss.
7. Using a pick tool on the strut tower side, disconnect the clutch line from clutch master cylinder.
8. Cap the reservoir and hydraulic lines in order to prevent fluid loss and contamination.

pic 7


Important: Do not damage the pushrod boot when sliding it through the front of the dash.

9. Remove the clutch master cylinder mounting nuts and slide the clutch fluid reservoir up and out.

Installation Procedure


pic 8


Important: Do not damage the pushrod boot when sliding it through the front of the dash.

1. Uncap the fluid reservoir and hydraulic lines.

Notice: Refer to Fastener Notice in Cautions and Notices.

2. Slide the clutch fluid reservoir into the mounting slot and install the clutch master cylinder mounting nuts.
- Tighten the nuts to 23 Nm (17 ft. lbs.).


pic 9

3. Install the clutch master cylinder pushrod to the clutch pedal assembly, 1st design.
4. Install the clutch pedal retainer.


pic 10

5. Install the clutch master cylinder pushrod to the clutch pedal assembly, 2nd design.


pic 11

6. Remove the shop towel and discard into a suitable container.
7. Connect the clutch line to the clutch master cylinder.


pic 12

8. Connect the clutch master cylinder pushrod to the clutch pedal.
9. Install the clutch pedal retainer, nuts and bolts.
10. Bleed the clutch hydraulic system.

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Here are the most updated procedures for bleeding the system.

This procedure can be used anytime air is introduced into the hydraulic system. Following this procedure may also reduce the number of unnecessary parts replaced for low clutch pedal reserve and high shift effort.

Verify that all the lines and fittings are dry and secure.

Clean the dirt and grease from the reservoir cap in order to ensure that no foreign substances enter the system.

Remove the reservoir cap.

Fill the reservoir to the proper level with the required fluid.

Attach the J 43485 (Adapter) to the J 35555 (Mity Vac), or equivalent.

Brake fluid will deteriorate the rubber on J 43485. Use a clean shop cloth to wipe away the fluid after each use.

Place and hold the adapter on the reservoir filler neck to ensure a tight fit. In some cases, the adapter will fit into the reservoir opening.

Apply a vacuum of 51-68 kPa (15-20 hg) and remove the adapter.

Refill the reservoir to the proper level.

Repeat Steps 6 and 7.

If needed, refill the reservoir and continue to pull a vacuum until no more bubbles can be seen in the reservoir or until the fluid level no longer drops.

The vehicle will move if started in gear before the Actuator Cylinder is refilled and operational. Start the vehicle the first time in neutral to help prevent personal injury from vehicle movement and see if the transmission will shift easily into gear.

Pump the clutch pedal until firm (to refill actuator cylinder).

Add additional fluid if needed.

Test drive vehicle to ensure proper operation.

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Let me know if this helps.

Take care,
Joe

Joe, thank you for your prompt response. Unfortunately I am out of my hometown and no access to tools.
If I was too take to mechanic shop would they perform services you described? Approximate cost? I'm in Fresno California.

Welcome back:

Yes, they would perform the task. Cost is really going to be based on what is needed. What I have done is attach two pictures. The first one shows parts and labor for a clutch master cylinder (which I think is the problem). The second pic shows parts and labor for the slave cylinder, which is much more because the transmission needs removed.

The labor is in hours, so multiply the number of hours by the shops labor rate to get an idea on cost. The parts listed are original equipment parts and you should be able to get after market for less.

Is Fresno in southern Ca? The owner of this site owns a shop in socal. At least I would know you are getting someone honest. I'm in PA, so a bit far. LOL

Let me know if this helps or if you have other questions.

Hi there!
Is the following statement true?
When a slave cylinder is bad you would be at an able to put it in gear when the ignition is off?

Welcome back:

When either the slave cylinder or clutch master cylinder are bad, you can still shift into gears with the engine is off. There may be some resistance if the gears are not meshed, but you will not get a grinding and it will go into gear. When you start the engine, it will not go into gear if either of the components has failed. Please keep in mind, if either component is still working and is only in the process of fully failing, you may be able to shift. However, most times the clutch pedal will feel spongy or differently than normal.

I hope that answers your question.

Take care,
Joe

Thank you Joe for sharing your knowledge. At this point I have done all I can to try to figure it out. Being that we were able to bleed it, then it ran fine, drove around town, got on freeway, working fine for 80+ miles then pedal goes to the floor, no type of resistance. No leaking of fluid that is visible, the reserve is full. I'm not a pro mechanic my conclusion is that air is getting into this system. In using deductive reasoning that it ran fine in town then on the freeway I'm thinking okay lot of miles it's getting hot, air expands then the clutch doesn't work.

Well at this point I'm going to go ahead and take it in, get their diagnosis.
I'll let you know what it was how about that?

I do appreciate all the time you have given assisting me in this matter.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Gabrielle

More....
Joe you gave me some advice regarding a shop that I could go to when I was in southern California. I was wondering if by chance do you know of any shops in Sacramento California. I had the car towed up here. FYI lol

Gabrielle,

First, I like your analysis. It is something many can't do anymore. LOL If you have no pedal at all and there are no leaks, my first suspect is the master cylinder. As far as a shop, I wish I could give you an exact name, but being in PA, the only thing I can do is envy where you live. LOL

The owner of this site has a very successful business in socal. I will send him this link and see if he has any recommendations for you.

Take care of yourself and I hope you have a nice memorial day weekend. I will watch for your reply.

Take care,

Joe

Joe I need your advice. I took my car in. Manju the reservoir is full it has been full before this issue started and after we bled it improperly or otherwise it has always been full. In addition there was no visible leakage. My question to you is, is it possible for the reservoir to keep its consistent level and there be leakage within the slave cylinder? Where is that fluid stored if there is leakage and it's not coming from the reservoir?

just to let you know I'm not too sure about these questions but that's what I was told. please answer me back as soon as possible like today. joking LOL, Gabrielle

Welcome back,

If the slave is leaking, the level will go down in the reservoir. There is nowhere for the slave to store fluid. Also, I feel strongly that if that was the case, you would see the leak.

Let me know if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe

Where would I see the leak?
Can it leak inside?
These question I do not know. They are telling me that slave is leaking.

OMG Joe. I had my car towed to shop. They are insisting that it is the slave. There's only one time I saw any sign of leakage. I had it towed from the southern California, parked here in Sacramento there was two tiny tiny drops that dried up quickly. I I know that fluid had been spilled when it was being bled in Southern CAlifornia. I believe very strongly that they did not do the total diagnosis on it. I questioned them in detail because I'm a pain in the butt, I said how did you diagnose the car did you check the clutch play, did you check the clutch when started and off, ect. how you the mechanic know slave leaking, do you go through the gears etc., he's telling me yeah well the mechanic had been a mechanic for 30 years n he trusts him. I told him why I don't! I'm like well I want to know how he diagnosed did he go through the procedures. And if in fact it is a slave and it's leaking why has the level never changed in the reservoir. I fell they are playing me like a fool because they want $1,800.00. Mind you they still have my car at their shop. Oh and yesterday on the telephone after they diagnosed it's supposedly they told me that there was little to none fluid in the reservoir I totally said "what?" there I've never ever any change in the level of the fluid in the reservoir. Then when I questioned them today about why don't they just change a master cylinder for me well yesterday on the phone he told me know he's not going to do that for me now today he saying we'll go ahead and do that if that's what you want but it's that's not the problem. He said he's going to cost you a lot more. And then he's telling me to change the master it's like four or five hundred bucks. I looked online the maximum Sacramento the max is like 377. Joe I know I'm asking probably a lot and I don't know if you can answer this but they're in possession of my car and I went back multiple times to question him he's always tells me that the slave is the problem but he'll give me a deal if it's the master. He says he won't let me in the shop to look at my car the mechanic doesn't even give any explanation he doesn't really have to speak good English. Do you really think it could be the slave by them just taking off the clutch plate cover and visually looking at it inside? Please help if you can thank you, Gabrielle

I hope you understand this text I am kind of upset.

Joe, can you fly to California be my mechanic and fix my car? Besides I think you're due for a vacation, LOL. thank you for your help.

Welcome back,

All I can say is, I wish. I have never been to CA but plan to visit one day. Now for the problem at hand. Anything is possible. However, it is interesting that the master cylinder is now nearly empty. Ugh!!! Honestly, and I hate to say this because I'm not there to see what is happening, but you may want a second opinion from a different shop. They can't hold your vehicle.

I'm sitting here thinking and it hit me, $1.800.00? Do they charge $200.00 an hour for labor? I have no idea what the labor rates are there, but wow!

Take a look at the picture. It shows the cost of an original equipment part and how many hours labor is given to install it. The part is over $300.00 and it calls for 7.2 hours labor. That means they are charging around $200.00 an hour. Is that correct? If it is, maybe I should move. LOL And yes, I am sure an aftermarket slave can be purchased for cheaper.

Don't allow yourself to get upset. There are always options, and at this point I think you should get a second opinion. I have no idea how they are testing the car, and now I have no idea if the master cylinder has or hasn't dropped. If it has, then I would suspect a leak at some point or a bad slave. If the master cylinder leaked, you would be able to see it.

I wish I had a better answer for you and wish I could help more. However, please feel free to let me know if you need anything.

Take care,
Joe

Joe, got my car back. They changed the clutch assembly, the slave and the master. Right off driving there gear grinds a little then two miles at red light rpm's jumping car shuts off, started keep gassing so would not shut off third into parking lot does again. OMG. Had my AAA tow me back. Now sitting at Firestone waiting.
Hey they did show me the clutch where the rivets are pretty low, worn.

What did they do to my car for it to shut off? Why is it grinding in third. Everything is new?

Honestly, they did a lot of work. As far as the stalling, it could be something as simple as an engine vacuum line that was missed. See what they say. Also, the grinding is another issue. Again, it to could be simple. Maybe they need to re-bleed the system. It's very possible a small amount of air is still there.

Let me know what you find. Also, I did speak with the site owner regarding your issue. He offered to contact the shop to see if he could help. He is 9 hours from Sacramento. If you give me the shop's phone number, I will forward it to him and he will call on your behalf to see what is going on.

Let me know.

Joe

Joe, regarding stalling, I was told linkage dirty? (I received no paperwork unsure.)
They cleaned. Manager and I went for test drive. Not engaging in third, grinds. Only heard grinding. I was told take car home and drive it and to bring back Thursday they would do repair again. Manager and mechanic of today. Joe, I'm not driving it anymore than I have to.
It would be nice for your boss to call. 7:00 to 8:00 am Thursday tomorrow I will be at the shop. if your boss thinks he can help me that would be great. So long as he does not cost me anymore money lol. $1,850.00. Was a lot.

Gabrielle

If it's not too much to ask.
Is there any chance your boss would call me? That way he will know from me what I'm experiencing.
Let me know.
Gabrielle

Gabrielle,

I will forward this to him. Let me know when he calls or as always, let me know if I can help.

Joe

Hello,

Sorry for the delay, too late today to call. I am on it tomorrow.

Thank you much. I greatly appreciate you extending yourself to help me.

If it is allowed I'd like to send you a gratitude present. Let me know.

Gabrielle

Hi Gabrielle,

It was nice speaking with you today, here is the video, please watch to see the job that was done:

https://youtu.be/6N6b5F2ChyE

I spoke to Ken and we are going to try changing the fluid in the transmission because it sounds like the third gear synchro is worn and hopefully the fluid will give it a little more grab and stop the grinding.

Please let me know what happens.

Hello Ken, I want you to know that I appreciate all you've done in my behalf.
Thank you for the advice and clarifying diagnosis's, you put my mind at ease

Again, thank you
Gabrielle

Welcome back both of you. LOL

I'm glad he was able to help. Ken, thanks for helping. Gabrielle, let me know if you need anything additional or if I can help in anyway.

Take care,

Joe

Joe, I spoke with your boss Ken today. He had already spoken with my Ken and explained that he believes it's the transmission. That's why it's grinding in third, if it was the clutch it would be grinding in all gears. He suggested to them that they change transmission fluid. In efforts to extend life expectancy. I'm going to need new transmission in near future. Ken got me to think about buying another car.

It's kind of weird, today I was driving three miles to the shop only maybe twice grinded in third.

Shop still has my car 2:33pm. When I get it back I'll explain more.

Oh and I asked Ken your boss if it was okay to send you something he said okay and to contact with you on it.

Gabrielle

Ken, it is Gabrielle we are doing the oil change the guy found this part he said "floating" in the engine area, not attached. I took a picture of it. I have no idea what it belongs to, do you? Intake duct for?

Welcome back,

There is absolutely no need to send anything. We are here to help you. (and I realize in this day and age, that seems odd) LOL. I actually spoke with Ken earlier regarding you and this issue. We both agree it sounds like the third gear synchronizer is going bad. It makes sense that the clutch is working fine, otherwise it would make noise when shifting into any gear.

Now, for the picture you attached. It was found in the engine compartment? Is it plastic and hollow? It's hard to tell for sure, but it appears to the the fresh air inlet tube that would attach to the air filter box under the hood.

Check the air filter box to see if something is missing where fresh air enters the box and let me know.

Joe

Hi there again. I took my car back to them this morning in the mechanic on duty there couldn't figure out how to attach that piece. l was asked to come back tomorrow so the mechanic that worked on my car can attach it.
The piece (air duct) attaches to the battery compartment and extends somewhere between the radiator and the headlight assembly. I do not know. Do you?

Sorry, I haven't got back to you sooner, but I've been ill better now.You know all the process of being getting my car fixed. I'm going to start at the ending that is that they fixed the clutch and that it was going to be maybe a little bit different shifting into gears but I did have difficulties getting into third base it was grinding a little bit. So starting from there since I've driven in a few miles not very many I'm having difficulties getting it into any gear sometimes especially into first. My question to you is this all the information that I've gathered is that it wouldn't be the transmission if it goes into all gears regarding the third gear grinding. I'm asking you now what could it be if it's starting to get harder into any gear especially into first after I start my car? thank you for your assistance in advance. Gabrielle

Yep, this is a sign the clutch disc is having issues could be due to a warped plate. Here is a video of the FWD clutch job being down on a similar car:

https://youtu.be/6N6b5F2ChyE

and

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/clutch-doesnt-work-sometimes-or-not-at-all

Please run down this guide and report back.

Thank you for getting back to me. I have a lot on my plate at this time but I will get on it and get back with you by say Tuesday July 9th. Thank you again. Oh and FYI. reverse as well as first are more difficult to engage.

Yep, clutch issue, please let us know.

I am kicking myself for not taking it in. I have the utmost certainty that I would have completed the repairs with no errors. These mechanics and managers are incompetent.
This is serious issues. I'm not driving it, not safe to drive.
I'm beside myself.

Ken. Omg. Now today I smell an awful odor. Almost like burnt rubber but not I do not like like hot metal. I know its not one of the stages of engine oil.
Low miles since repair.
Stopped in shop 11 today. Can't see my car until Friday and wants to keep my car for a couple days. Extremely disappointed, upset, called corporate who called diff shop locations. One tech just left for vacation. Other which is distance away first said no, on return call she spoke with manager, Ricky and she left me voice mail stating that they do not like working on clutches, that he read notes on acct. and prob is transmission, take it to Aamco. I already done that. (You'll recall third gear issue.) Anyway on voicemail she's confident that Ricky manager will get his top mechanic on it and if I needed towed whatever here take care of it.
Well I listened to Holly's voice mail, called Ricky manager to set appointment tomorrow 7:00 am. my perception is that Ricky is not all that inclined to deal with my issue. He stated they'd take for a test drive and see if we see anything. What? I mean I don't know where to go at this point I don't want them driving my car any more than shoot.
I'm very upset and I really don't know how to handle this. I want them to fix it right. They need to do while job over again. New parts and all.
Obviously something was done incorrectly. I know that to be true. What do you think? thank you for your time.
$1,850.00 my money they have. I have what?

Hey guys. I know it's too much to ask. I vented. Thanks

Welcome back, Gabrielle,

You are allowed to vent. LOL Listen, I understand you don't want them driving the vehicle. What I suggest is to take them with you driving and show them what is happening. If they then need to drive it, you ride along. I understand your concerns.

As far as the smell, that has me a bit concerned. Can you pinpoint approximately where it is coming from?

Let us know what is happening or if you need anything.

Joe

Joe, I just got done driving my car safe for approximately at the most 6 miles and it is 96° today in Sacramento and I park my car I get out go around to the passenger side and as I was walking I smelt this kind of odor now that you're bound and I'm parked in the street. so I'm thinking maybe it was one of the other cars or something but he was in the night go to the passenger side open the door I smelled it again am I skipping sniffing like a dog and it drew me to the middle of the car but then it wasn't like it was how do I say it I could smell it but it wasn't continuously and it the same spot because at that point I went to the back open my backup my friend and I were in the back of the car with the with the hatch up I got another whiff. I couldn't exactly pinpoint it I tried.

if only I would have done it myself if I have the means to do have done it I would have trust me on that. I didn't have the facility to lift my car nor did I have the proper jacks.

I understand. Honestly, make sure nothing has melted on the exhaust system. I have had people over the years come in thinking their cars were on fire, but in reality, it was nothing more than a plastic bag melted to the catalytic converter that they ran over. When the smell comes from under the car, like you said, it's hard to tell exactly where it's coming from because heat, air flow and so on keeps moving it.

Let me know if it is something that simple.

Take care,
Joe

Still going Energizer Bunny LOL.
I'm going to send you a video. Tell me what you think?

Corporate office and I agreed that the best route to take would be to file complaint and the district manager will handle it so that you can find someone within his their corporation that is able to fix my car because apparently no one in my surrounding area can.

Thank you. God bless.

Welcome back,

I will watch for your video. However, am I looking at wiring with about 2 inches of insulation missing?

Yes you are correct. That was not like that before I have shop my car.
Help me with this Ken with Firestone is refunding my $1,850.00 he says that he believes I have other issues. Or. Transmission.
Questions for you. You know all symptoms and repairs. What would be my next step? Could Ken maybe refer me to a good shop in Sacramento that could check repair both clutch and transmission?

Any advice for you guys would most appreciated. I believe in you guys.
Gabrielle


And why is the manager is so apt to give me back my dollars after he had set an appointment for me on Monday?!.

Joe in addition I attached pic of my clutch reservoir. The white line in dirt is where I took Q-tip across bottom.