2004 Chrysler Sebring P0301 code

I can't argue with anything you guys said, and I'm sorry for your experiences, but keep in mind there are two totally different cars with the same name. The Sebring convertible is built in Mexico. The Sebring hardtop and its twin the Avenger are Mitsubishis that Chrysler buys from Japan and puts their name on so you actually already have a Japanese car.

Working in the repair department, I got to read on the repair orders the things customers complain about, and 95 percent of those things were only because it was still under warranty. They weren't such big problems if the customer found out they'd have to pay for the repairs. Wind turbulence over wiper blades and tire noise were my favorites. No one would have dreamed about complaining about those things in the 1960s but today we demand quieter and smoother with more complicated toys, and lots and lots of cup holders. A base model car today has more stuff on it than a Rolls Royce from the 1960s. There were no delayed wipers, just a three speed model to upgrade from the standard two-speed. GM had a two-speed automatic transmission, today we have six and eight-speeds because even four isn't enough complexity. Of course the problems all started when they hung computer controls on it. The slightest glitch from a sensor was enough to send the computer into convulsions. Even Chrysler-haters admit Chrysler had by far the toughest and most reliable automatic transmission from the 1960s through the early 1980s until they started hanging overdrive units on it to increase fuel mileage.

All older mechanics know what a piece of junk the Plymouth Volare was. It just about sealed Chrysler's fate, but mine cost me $90.00 (in 1980 dollars) for repairs, oil changes and air filters in the first 32,000 miles. Since then it has been parked and stored to keep it nice. Ma had the twin '78 LeBaron wagon that had more trouble in the first 40,000 miles, then no trouble at all for its remaining 190,000 miles, so how do you decide if it was a good car or not? The selling dealer, (no longer in business), refused to cover a big part of the early problems under warranty, but it was handled under warranty by a different dealer who did not sell her the car. That's the same dealer I bought my Volare from and eventually worked for ten years later.

Next she bought that dandy '88 Grand Caravan. It's still my daily driver up here in WI where we throw a ton of salt on an ounce of snow. After 224,000 miles, I had the first no-start condition caused by a $19.00 part that took well over five minutes to replace. My fault though. It was intermittently cutting out for almost a year before I decided to look at it, so I can't say I didn't have fair warning. Now, that old rusty trusty van has one computer. It runs the engine. There is no anti-theft system to keep it from starting. We all know that most systems are very effective at keeping owners out of their cars. The tough little hydraulically-controlled automatic transmission has had one fluid and filter change in its lifetime, and I use the van regularly to drag around an enclosed tandem-axle trailer that's bigger and heavier than the van itself. Try doing that with any newer minivan or even an SUV.

Ma's newer van, a 1995 Grand Caravan is full of computers. It has no dome lights because of a defective Body Computer. Tee hee hee. My van uses a three-dollar door switch to turn the lights on. Of course hers stay on for ten seconds, (well, they used to), after closing the doors so you can see to put your seat belt on. I can do it in the dark, but I can also turn the light switch on if I have to. I don't need a computer for that. Hers has a computer-controlled transmission, ... The third one in fact. That newer van would explode before it could drag my trailer to the end of the driveway. So much for newer cars being better quality.

Here's a few things I wish everyone knew when looking at cars, but the salesmen won't tell you:

Volkswagen: Since the early 1990s the radios have a code that must be punched in after the battery has been disconnected or run dead. That code is not recorded anywhere and the dealer has no way of getting it. If the owner forgets it or is no longer around, that radio is worthless and will never play again. You must buy a new one. On newer models with the unbelievably stupid "throttle-by-wire", there is no simple common sense throttle cable. Instead, a sensor on the gas pedal tells the computer how much to turn the motor on the engine to open the throttle blade. Ever hear of the Toyota lawsuits over "stuck throttles"? Same system. We didn't have these problems until we added a silly computer to replace a trouble-free cable. This is just begging for lawsuits. If you run the battery dead or disconnect it to replace it, you're done. Even if the engine starts it won't come off of idle and it won't come out of "park". Drag it to the dealer with a tow truck to have "minimum throttle" reprogrammed in with their very expensive equipment. They don't do that for free either. Got'cha! Chryslers relearn minimum throttle while it's being driven.

Honda: Dandy little cars, but be aware the scheduled maintenance includes replacing the timing belt at 75,000 miles. That repair costs about as much as two car payments. Problem is the belts typically break at around 65,000 miles. Being "interference" engines, that means some of the valves become bent from hitting the pistons. Now the repairs equal about five or six car payments. In an effort to copy what is perceived by the car-buying public to be good cars, the domestic manufacturers have copied this design and Chrysler also has some of these interference engines. They can develop the same expensive problems, but that timing belt rarely breaks before 150,000 miles. Of course the Chrysler owner will whine and snivel about poor quality. The Honda owner will gladly pay the repair bill because they know their car is of the highest quality. This engine design came about, in part, for better fuel mileage. Heck, my Volare gets 28.3 mpg consistently and doesn't even use a timing belt. It is 4400 pounds of chrome-plated steel that will flatten the new cars with styrofoam bumpers. (That is not sarcasm. Plastic is too expensive for bumpers on new cars).

Lexus: Nice car if you can afford it. Beware of buying a used one when the dealer only has the valet keys. They don't open the trunk or glove box. Replacement keys come from Japan with a new Body Computer. No $2.95 keys from the hardware store for you. Total cost of parts is $1500.00. Got'cha! This information is from an independent repair web site available only to mechanics and shop owners, and was verified by a high-level trainer from a national company.

Keep in mind most domestic cars built in the U.S are built with union labor which costs a lot more than at the foreign manufacturers. In Japan, management personnel earn twice what an assembly line worker earns, not millions of dollars. The government works WITH manufacturers to help them be competitive. In the U.S, our bureaucrats and manufacturers are adversaries. Cost of labor is high. Cost of regulation is high. Cost of producing one car is much higher than anywhere else. The big three have to do something to keep costs down or they won't sell any cars. The only place left to squeeze is the parts suppliers. They will jump ship and go to a different supplier that can save them a nickel, (no exaggeration), on a fifty dollar part. Shoot, Ford left four grease fittings off their cars in the late 1970s to save four nickels per car. That's huge when it involves millions of cars plus the replacement parts they get to sell later.

Chrysler: Went with the lowest cost supplier for minivan turn signal switches, then had all kinds of trouble with them. Funny thing is they had three part numbers stamped on them. The Chrysler number, one we don't know, and the third one was, ... A Toyota part number! "Yah, Chrysler builds junk alright". They built it with Toyota parts which we know are high quality. How about the high failure rate of AC compressor clutches, ... Built by Nippendenso and used on a lot of Japanese vehicles. Every Chrysler owner has experienced the intermittent no-crank condition caused by worn solenoid contacts in the Nippendenso starter. That's the same starter used by Toyota. In fact, where GM builds 80 percent of their own parts and buys the rest, Chrysler builds 20 percent of their parts and buys the rest, often from Japanese suppliers, so why do they have such a high parts failure rate? I thought Japanese stuff was so good.

Nissan: It's dandy they extended the warranty on their radiators but I find it interesting that that is perceived as a positive thing. Why are they having problems to begin with? Had Chrysler done the same thing would you be heralding them as an outstanding company too or would you berate them for building a poor-quality radiator in the first place? Most owners, after receiving free repairs, would still be grumpy because they were inconvenienced and had to take the time to bring the car in for service. The people behind the service counter hear that whining all day long, and they still are able to force a smile when you walk in.

Suburu: I have no negative opinions to share. The only "bad" thing I ever ran across wasn't really that bad. It involved a former student misinterpreting the unclear aftermarket service manual on a computer screen, which we hate. I'm mildly amused at the spare tire over the engine, but hey, at least it has one. Full-size, I mean.

Pontiac: "We build driving excitement". That wears off when the first payment comes due. What I don't understand is where my students get the money for the repeated $800.00 repair bills every six months.

Don't even get me started on the Ford "killer" cars with steering linkages that fall apart or the GM front-wheel-drive cars where occupants can't survive a 45 mph crash. These are regular occurrences, not isolated incidents, but they don't make the news. Chrysler had the unbelievably tough Shadow and Sundance. Those were like little ostrich eggs. You couldn't bust 'em in a crash, ... So now we have the Neon pile that doesn't get much better fuel mileage than my Volare which weighs twice as much.

I could go on but that isn't going to solve any of your problems. I dislike all new cars and will never buy another one unless I can find one built with common sense instead of technology. "Technology is neat, but we're way outpacing our need for it". I don't need my behind to be toasted in winter. It's only cold for a few seconds. I don't need remote start. I'm not so lazy I can't walk outside to start my car. If I was, I shouldn't be living with asthma in WI! I can lock my doors by pushing a button. I like power windows and I don't mind holding the button until the window is all the way down. I'll decide for myself how long I want the dome lights to stay on, thank you. You can keep your Body Computers. Shoot, I can even switch the day / night mirror myself. I know when I drive to town, everything will still be working when I get home.

Sorry for carrying on so. I understand most of you just want one car that works properly. Believe it or not, I want the same thing for all of you. The difference is, from my past experience as a mechanic, tv repairman, and automotive instructor, I've seen the industry from a different perspective than that of a car owner, ... And I'm not happy with what I've seen. The industry has the capability to build clean, reliable, economical cars, but they have us convinced we need more toys and technology. Are we really so lazy we need motorized sliding side doors? How DID we survive in the old days when we had to pull the lift gate down with our hands? Few people realize there was more computing power in a basic late 1980s car than there was in the lunar lander that dumped people on the moon! And that 1980s car was primitive compared to today's technological marvels. What is really amazing to me is that half of the stuff still works after a few years.

Before I go sit and pout in the corner, now that I got myself in a crabby mood, I have one parting suggestion. You might consider scrolling through the forums on this site and look for what types of things other people are having problems with. There are other web sites for various specific car models but naturally 100 percent of the questions and problems will be related to that one model. On this site you will get a mix of every brand and model. There are also a lot of experts here with experience on a lot of different brands and automotive systems. I know some of you have done that already while researching a specific problem, but it's also a dandy way to research the common reoccurring problems people are having with a model you might be considering purchasing. I really don't care what kind of car anyone buys. It just frosts my onions when that car develops one of its common, well-documented problems, yet it takes the owner by surprise. Car salesmen only tell you the good stuff and leave out the other half of the story. I'll tell you the bad stuff because that's what costs you money.

I hope you guys find some answers. I'll be back if I come up with anything.

Caradiodoc

That's why I posted here and not on your new thread. I wouldn't have added my opinions here if it looked like you were still using this thread to find an answer. My comments were in response to other people including yourself who started posting opinions of how bad certain companies are with having little knowledge of the good and bad of most of them. Every manufacturer has problems and every manufacturer has cars that go forever without major problems. Most people base their opinions on the severe isolated cases that make news. Mine are based on what I see at many different manufacturer-sponsored schools, and the complaints people have about their cars. I just followed along and added my opinions which are a lot different than those of the typical car owner.

I agree this isn't the forum for convincing anyone which car is best, but when people start bashing any company, I start rolling my eyes. I'm confused why you started a new thread. That really isn't fair to the people who are trying to help you because they will have to take the time to search for the previous history so they don't start sending you in circles with stuff you've already tried. Some of these guys answer dozens of questions each day after doing a pile of research on each one. Now they're going to start all over with your new thread.

My goal isn't to convince you that one brand of car is better or worse. But please understand that very often simply knowing WHY something was decided, WHY there's a certain policy, or WHY they did what they did can ease the frustration. Doesn't get the problem solved, but might make it easier to take.

I sincerely hope you find a solution. I actually DO have another suggestion although in this case I don't think it's a real good one, otherwise I would have shared it earlier. The Chrysler dealer has a scanner, (and many independent shops have aftermarket scanners), that have a record / playback feature. It will record live sensor data for about ten seconds after you press the record button while you're driving the car. The reason this isn't the greatest tool is your Check Engine light takes so long to turn on. You have to press the record button right away, then, because the data travels through the scanner's memory, the recording actually begins a couple of seconds before you pressed the button. Later, the data can be replayed to see what the sensors saw. The mechanic will look for a glitch or spike in an "input" sensor the Engine Computer uses to determine when to fire an injector or spark plug, and he will look at the "output" sensors that tell the computer how things went after the injectors and plugs fired. Those types of sensor readings won't set a fault code because they are simply doing what they are supposed to do, and that's report information. The computer already detected a misfire; we know that. At issue is developing a test strategy that is more effective than just replacing suspect parts. This test works better when the problem acts up every few minutes.

The Engine Computer detects misfires by measuring engine speed. The crankshaft's rotational speed decreases just a very tiny amount and just for a few milliseconds, but that is how we feel it in the car, (when we do), and the computer knows which cylinder is about to fire next, so it knows which cylinder is causing the misfire. If the fault code always indicates the same cylinder, suspect something related to just that one, meaning spark plug / ignition coil, fuel injector, or as appeared to be your case, compression. If the fault code is related to "multiple cylinder misfire", suspect something that is common to all cylinders such as fuel quality, fuel pressure, or input sensors. Even an exhaust leak before the catalytic converter can be a suspect. It can draw in air between the pulses of exhaust gas. That air gets detected by the oxygen sensor which tells the computer to add more fuel. That can cause a misfire. There are so many things like that and they aren't specific to Chrysler.

There's two reasons I didn't chime in with these suggestions a long time ago. First, I think there has to be a better way to diagnose the problem than what I've included now, and I explained why. Second, we don't like to but t into ongoing conversations unless someone asks for additional help. Now, however, in the spirit of trying to find a solution, I can think of two places to try. We have a very knowledgeable fellow who puts on high-level classes for people in my community. They involve diagnosing the one car out of a hundred that no one can figure out. He owns a specialty shop in Joliet, IL where they come up with the solutions. His only customers are other shops. There are many other shops like his all over the country. They sprang up because cars have gotten so complex and difficult to figure out. These shop owners share information with each other and they are in constant contact with the manufacturers. You might inquire about such a shop in your area. They will be in larger cities and where the state requires emissions testing.

The second suggestion would be to look for a Chrysler training center. Most states have at least one although many are being shut down in favor of miserable internet-based training. When the instructors aren't holding classes for Chrysler mechanics, they are the first people to research a difficult problem a dealer is having. You would be surprised at some of the unusual, and often simple fixes they discover. Often they will know the answer before we finish asking the question.

I hope there's some information you can actually use. Also, don't forget my comment about a meeting with the district rep. They might not have an answer, but they should know who will.

Caradiodoc