Blown head gasket or maybe something else?

Tiny
SWILSON3828
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  • 1997 FORD F-150
  • 4.6L
  • V8
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 200,000 MILES
Good evening,

A very peculiar situation I have going on. I was driving this truck a few days ago and it stalled. All of the gauges were fine; oil pressure was reading fine, hot/cold was mid way and stable. I did hear a faint ticking should and noticed one of the cylinders didn't appear to be firing. I was close to my house, so I let it sit a bit, started it, and was able to get home. As I was coming down my road the truck knocked off again, so I just let it coast to my house. Checked the radiator, found no water. Pulled the dipstick and an oil/water mixture was almost halfway up the dipstick. Unscrewed the oil pan plug and probably three gallons on think, chocolate milky mixture of oil and water came out. My first thought was a blown head gasket. Anyway, the next day I changed the oil filter and oil as I was going to try to clean the system of the mixture by changing the oil multiple times. Got everything changed, the truck started up and ran fine, with all of the cylinder's firing. Still heard a faint ticking but as the oil circulated it quieted down for the most part. About an hour after that I decided to refill the radiator with water and attempt to try some sealer to try and seal off the blown part of the gasket area. I put one gallon of water in the radiator, and then another gallon, and then another gallon. I ended up putting prob 6, maybe 7 gallons of water in that radiator before it stopped taking water. I was wondering how much water the radiator took because, to me, it took a lot more than it should have. And thew whole time you could hear the water draining down (I just thought it was filling the hoses and the coolant ports on the engine)
Anyway, I decided to check the oil level again. When I pulled the dipstick out water started shooting out of the dipstick tube hole so obviously that's where all of that water went. My first thought, as stated above, was a blown head gasket, but after I thought about it for a while a simple blown head gasket would not have allowed water to drain into the oil pan that fast, especially since the motor hadn't been started so as to build any pressure. Any ideas as to what could be causing this issue other than a blown head gasket? A few weeks ago, I had an issue with the #4 plug and getting it out, so I undid some hoses around the heater core ports to better access the plug. As odd as it sounds is there any chance, I could have hooked a hose up the wrong way or something? I'm aware that there are a couple of oil cooling lines that run somewhere into the oil pump.
Anyway, thanks for any insight.
Monday, February 5th, 2024 AT 2:58 PM

52 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

These originally had cylinder heads cracking due to engine coolant issues from the manufacturer. It could be a head gasket if it failed at a water port. Have you tried to check engine compression to see if one of the cylinders is low?

I have procedures for testing for a head gasket issue, but I think we are beyond those checks.

At this point, I would suggest checking compression to see if there is one or more cylinders with low compression. That will point us in the right direction.

Here is a link explaining how it's done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

You will need a compression gauge, but most parts stores will lend one to you.

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Monday, February 5th, 2024 AT 6:53 PM
Tiny
SWILSON3828
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Hi Joe and thanks for the reply. I'm going to test the cylinders later today and I'll let you know what I find out. It just seems almost impossible to me that water would drain that quickly into the oil pan from a blown head gasket or a cracked cylinder head, especially since all the cylinders are firing when I run it with just oil in it and no coolant. I'll let it run for 30 seconds or so. I'll let you know what I find.
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Tuesday, February 6th, 2024 AT 5:48 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Check at the front and rear of the cylinder heads to see if there is evidence of a leak. Take a look at the pics below. I believe that is a water port that is being plugged. If it is leaking there, it could go directly into the engine. It's a theory, but worth checking.

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Tuesday, February 6th, 2024 AT 8:57 PM
Tiny
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Good morning,

I was unable to check the compression yesterday but I will check it today and let you know what I find. Regarding the possible water port/ports I will take a look at that too. Just to clarify, your suspicion that it might be a blocked water port, are you thinking that a block crack may have developed due to the blocking of the water port, or are you referring to something else? I do know there was a lot of rust in the radiator when I changed the coolant several months ago. Thanks again for the responses.
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2024 AT 6:03 AM
Tiny
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Just a follow up. I'd drained all of the oil from the engine, and the fluid from the radiator.
Made sure the oil pan screw and the oil filter were snug and just for the sake of doing it I decided to blow into the overflow tank where I fill the radiator, and there was pretty much no resistance. I decided to take the air filter housing off so I could get a better look and when I disconnected it from the throttle body oil came out. I haven't started this truck since before water started coming out of the oil dipstick tube, so this sludgy mess was in the TB prior to my fiasco with the water coming out of the dipstick hole. I know sometimes this could be an indication of worn rings, but there was a decent amount of sludge in the TB that came out when I removed the air filter housing. Thanks
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2024 AT 11:54 AM
Tiny
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Hi,

Wow, that is a mess. I don't think the rings caused this. When you pressurized the reservoir, you said there was little resistance. Could you hear anything that would indicate where the air is going?

Joe
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2024 AT 4:10 PM
Tiny
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Good evening. It sounded like it was coming from around where the lower radiator hose goes into the water pump. I pulled the oil plug from the oil pan to see how quickly the water was getting to the oil pan, and water started coming out of the oil drain hole in the pan in about 5 seconds after pouring water into the overflow tank, the water is making it to the water pump and then right down to the oil pan. Makes the think there is a crack in the block right behind the water pump. Not sure what else it could be. My brother mentioned the timing cover gasket, but I'm not sure how that would cause water to drain into the oil pan. Thanks for the reply
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2024 AT 4:21 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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You may want to inspect the plugs in the pics I attached above. Also, how much coolant was added before it started leaking from the pan? For example, was the radiator level low or high?

Joe
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2024 AT 4:24 PM
Tiny
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Both the radiator and the oil were drained so the water level in the radiator was pretty much empty. I poured maybe a gallon of water into the overflow tank before it started draining from the pan within 5 seconds or so.
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2024 AT 4:38 PM
Tiny
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I may have told you wrong. The large part of the lower radiator hose connects, I'm guessing, to the block as the water pump is higher on the front of the engine. My guess is the small hose that runs off of the main hose goes to the water pump housing.
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Wednesday, February 7th, 2024 AT 5:32 PM
Tiny
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Hi Joe,

Just to follow up the compression on all of the cylinders were within a range of 115 to 120 except for the #4 cylinder, which I was unable to check. I'd previously had to tap and rethread #4 and place an insert in it. The plug wouldn't come out easily and I didn't want to risk messing with that insert. All cylinders appear to be firing fine when there is only oil in the engine. Thanks
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Monday, February 19th, 2024 AT 1:18 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

At this point, I feel we have exhausted most possibilities. It is likely time to remove and inspect the cylinder heads. I don't think it is a compression issue, but rather, I'm questioning if we have a crack in a water jacket allowing coolant to mix in the crankcase.

Let me know your thoughts and what I can do to help.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, February 20th, 2024 AT 6:45 PM
Tiny
SWILSON3828
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Thank you for your thoughts, my brother had mentioned that same possibility. I've already removed the radiator and am waiting on the tool to remove the fan blades.
If I may ask, what, exactly, is the lower radiator hose connected to? That hose has the large connection at the radiator, and then a large and small connection on the other end. Whatever is causing the leak is right there where the opposite end connections are. Thanks again
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Tuesday, February 20th, 2024 AT 7:27 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

There are a couple different set ups. However, the largest hose should go to a casting on the block. If there are smaller hoses branching off, they are for the heater and will have a steel pipe that runs under the intake.

As far as the cooling fan nut. If the special tool doesn't help, retain the pulley the best you can. Then, place the wrench on the bolt and give it a good two or three wacks with a heavy hammer. It will break loose for you.

Let me know.

Joe
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Tuesday, February 20th, 2024 AT 8:11 PM
Tiny
SWILSON3828
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Hey Joe. Sorry it has taken so long to update you with the situation with the truck. Had some family issues arise that took me away from dealing with the truck for a bit. Just to update I've taken the radiator and the cooling fan out. Used a pneumatic hammer and cooling fan removal tool) Still no clue what is causing the water to go right to the oil pan. I did some more research and came across the same issue, but with a completely different vehicle. It turns out it was a bad water pump. Also read that the 4.2L's for the 1997 and 1998 F150 had bad intake and front gaskets that also caused this issue. Any thoughts? Thanks again
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Sunday, March 24th, 2024 AT 12:33 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

I want you to remove the oil filter and add coolant. See if it comes out of the cooler assembly. It's a theory, but it may crack or damaged allowing oil to run directly into the engine.

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, March 24th, 2024 AT 6:00 PM
Tiny
SWILSON3828
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Hi, and thank you for the reply. I've removed the oil pan plug, and when I add water to the radiator, after a couple of pints of water/coolant added, it starts to come right out of the oil pan. I've removed the oil filter as suggested, but water starts to come out of the pan before it comes out of the port that would feed the oil filter. There is something between the lower radiator hose and the oil coolant housing that is allowing water to pour into the oil pan. I can't imagine that it is a blown head gasket or a faulty intake manifold gasket because I don't think enough water has been poured into the radiator to make it that high into the block. Apologies for the caps. It has got to be something around the area where the oil filter housing goes into the block.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2024 AT 6:32 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

With the oil filter off, does coolant come out of where the filter attaches? Also, the water pump is mounted to the engine front cover. It's possible that something has failed with the housing it mounts to. We may need to remove the pump to check.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2024 AT 7:10 PM
Tiny
SWILSON3828
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Hi, and thank you. No, water comes out of the oil pan prior to it coming out of where the oil filter connects. I poured about 32 ounces of water into the lower hose today and it started coming out of the oil pan. There was likely some residual water in the block as well prior to me pouring water into the lower hose.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2024 AT 7:24 PM
Tiny
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I'm not certain how much water it takes to fill the actual block, but I find it hard to believe the water gets high enough to leak down through a head gasket or manifold gasket.
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Sunday, March 24th, 2024 AT 7:26 PM

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