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Ignition trouble

Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 1977 JEEP CJ5
  • 4.2L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 200,000 MILES
My this is my third Jeep, after a 1999 TJ and a 2012 Sahara unlimited. I have had another TJ, an 2005 and I have a 1997 Grand Cherokee Laredo v8 that I am turning into a buggy. But my very favorite and most fun is the 1977, I call him Rusty Mccrumbles. My go to for going fishing, pulling a hot tub across the yard, hunting and exploring. Everything was great until about five months ago when the ignition module melted, and the coil split down the side. I had been having a loose connection at the ballast, and a friend told me just delete it so I did. Still ran fine until I was driving along and it just shut off, and has not started since. Five months ago I knew absolutely nothing about ignition systems, now I see countless diagrams with x-ray vision every time I see a Jeep. But I am doing this on my own and I am stuck. Have read several threads here but I just get more confused the more I learn. I have replaced, in this order, the starter relay coil, module, and finally distributor. Now it looks like the previous owner had done stuff that I did not realize so important for me to know what he did. I bought everything at advance auto, but nothing matches what I have taken off, except the coil. The guy working there said everything he sold me will work, but I cannot get fire no matter what I try. I ended up buying a distributor for a 1979 CJ on purpose, but it has three wires and the old one just had one. And I am getting hot to the "I" terminal on the starter relay and ground at the "S" terminal until it turns over, then the test light blinks. But still absolutely no spark, and if I cannot find help here, I am going to hand a Toyota emblem on the mirror and roll it off a cliff. Thanks for taking the time to read this (if anyone ever does).
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Thursday, February 1st, 2018 AT 4:35 AM

26 Replies

Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Rusty Mccrumbles meet "Mr. Jeep" (1977 258) and his big brother "Willy" ("46 134).

Pictures below.

They will be assisting you until you are back on your wheels.

I have many pictures/diagrams of Mr. Jeeps goodies, I might even link you to other answers I have given.

I think you are sort of on a right track with the 1979 set up. I upgraded mine to that system (Motorcraft). Prestolite (1977 system) has many crappy problems, mainly with the distributor. It is easy to break bell wire feed, spring breakage on the mechanical advance weights, time and heat destroying the vacuum advance bellows. I had enough of that every time I turned around!

The 258 is the best engine coupled with a Jeep!

I can help you, if you can understand my stuff.

I have answered several CJ's whereas the thread ran with over one hundred responses and even over months time.

Let me know if you want to pull into my garage, I am here for the long haul, are you?

Answering CJ's is my most favorite pass time on 2CarPros.

Last question.

Do you really love your Jeep?

The Medic
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Thursday, February 1st, 2018 AT 3:55 PM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Cannot help but love it, on bald shoes and bone stock it is up for any trail I have thrown at it, and when it runs it runs better than both both of the TJ's I have had. When I got my first TJ I knew I would only drive jeeps forever, but I was really impressed when I drove my CJ, it is easily the most fun. The first time this happened it was the red wire falling off the resister, then the resister went bad so I spent a couple months thinking I had a loose wire somewhere. I had a not so smart friend start ripping at wires one day saying I do not need it but it still ran. Also, I cannot remember where the wires from the heater relay went, but the blue and white wires in the book that go to the distributor were taped off not being used, so the original owner has done something, I am just not sure what. From the resister it looks like it should go to the splice for coil, then to the starter relay. I am really not sure though because every diagram I look at is half different because of what I have. Advance Auto sold me the gold module, and the coil is for external resister. I was reading one of your posts about a Holley four barrel (off subject) at Advance Auto. I have asked several times for a replacement and they say it has to be ordered from Jeep factory, but first things first. Thank you for helping.
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Friday, February 2nd, 2018 AT 4:38 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Want to go for the Motorcraft system?

I really recommend it, but it is up to you.

Sending you a link as to what will be involved (pretty simple)(looks complicated!).

This will give you an idea of the parts (mostly wires and connectors) you will need.

Some of the links you will come across are old and expired.

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/ignition-problem-75208814

Once you are ready, I will try to tell you what wires you will need to hook this up. Mainly the two wires that will feed the new 1979 ignition module.

I think you mentioned this.

Below is a diagram of the solenoid

Picture one, this is how it looks originally.

Picture two, this works too, mine are like this, swapping the big posts' wiring (starter is still by itself, just on the opposite post).

The solenoid do not care which big post is used, as long as it is a mirror image the original.

"S" and "I" must remain the same!

I do this so that I can "bump" (key off) or "start" (key on) the Jeep at the solenoid with a screwdriver picture three (should I not have my remote starter handy picture four).

This puts "hot" right beside "S".

This comes in handy at times, such as the day a stick jumped up and popped my fan belt off. I was by myself with only a screwdriver.

I was able to stretch the belt most of the way over the water pump pulley and held it tight in place with another stick. Then I bumped the engine (key off) with the screwdriver. Presto! The belt jumped on!

Let me know where to start, any questions?

Do you have any doubt to whether you installed the distributor correctly?

Has it actually ran with what you have now?

The Medic

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Friday, February 2nd, 2018 AT 5:22 PM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
I just re-read everything that you sent links, I paid better attention because I realized I am not just scanning random threads for something to stand out, it is for sure specific to my Jeep. So thanks! I am ordering another module and coil and a connector, is it possible to hard wire or solder the module to distributor? Or do I for sure need a connector?
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Saturday, February 3rd, 2018 AT 9:01 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Yes, you can hard wire the connections.

Yes, chopping connectors off will probably void warranties.

I really try to keep things consistent if I can, The entire system becomes a 1979, no improvising/making do/rigging.

If I need any ignition part now (maintenance), I tell them at the parts store that I have a 1979 CJ-5 (no need in confusing them!).

There is only the one part that was needed to make it work that is not 1979.

That would be the "ballast resister". The 1979 has a resistance wire to the coil, the 1977 does not. The ballast resistor sorta converts it (coil wire) to be like a 1979.

Insure the distributor is perfect, giving you a review on how to do it correctly.

Each post has a date at the bottom.

Stop when you get to: (in link below)

Thursday September 25th, 2014 AT 8:04 PM

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1978-jeep-cj5-engine-wont-start/page/3

I am here to assist in any way, shape, or form/ misunderstandings (mine or yours)/ why's plus hows/diagrams and pictures/maybe a different approach.

You just throw me a response on this thread, keep me posted as to your progress. Send pictures if need be.

The Medic

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Saturday, February 3rd, 2018 AT 9:47 AM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Okay, I ordered the module and coil last night, and coil connector so that connector for the module to distributor. What would that be called in their computer? Just trying to do it all the right way this time.
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Sunday, February 4th, 2018 AT 10:16 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Sort of the easiest way I could do this.

The first two items are what is needed

The first is to the distributor. (one of the wires is a piggyback, it is not used)

The second is for the module output.

https://www.carid.com/ignition-control-module-connectors/

I cannot find the connector for the input side of the module (it will have only two wires) This might be something to get at an auto salvage yard.

The correct way to disconnect this connections is to grasp the wires on either side and pull!

I took my diagram and sort of stripped away the stuff in your way.

I also labeled areas of the wiring with green capital letters so you can reference the area back to me that you may be having problems with.

Let me know where you need assistance.

Were you searching for a carburetor or am I confusing you with another Jeep?

The Medic

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Monday, February 5th, 2018 AT 6:47 PM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Yes I will need a carburetor, the Jeep was running pretty good but the carburetor is old, and I lost the spring on the driver side screw.
And tried setting the choke (the day the coil ruptured) so I would rather get a new one. I asked Advance Auto and they said if they could even get one it would be factory order and take forever. I drove my Jeep everyday, it is making me miserable for it to be parked, so thanks again for helping. I had almost given up. Cannot wait until the parts come in!
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Monday, February 5th, 2018 AT 8:32 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Get me straight here.

One barrel intake?

One barrel Carter YF?

I will soon be your second best friend, but of course, Rusty Mccrumbles will still be your first.

The Medic
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Tuesday, February 6th, 2018 AT 4:22 PM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
I finally got all the parts in the mail, it is raining and miserable cold but I am going to install everything today, should be dry enough in the carport. I am pretty sure the carburetor says Weber, but looks like one barrel. It has a rectangle shaped air filter that is held on by snaps.
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 10:46 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Send several pictures of carburetor/ intake, some with breather off.

The Medic
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 2:53 PM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Mr. Medevac? I have had these parts (new coil, module, resistor, distributor since our last message and I still cannot get this thing to run. The only thing I have not been able to find is the wiring harnesses for the module and distributor. Can you please tell me how to solder them to make it run? My brain hurts from information overload! I just cannot get it. I even put a new starter and ignition switch to make sure everything was new. I have a toggle and a button I will be starting it with because my key stripped out the plastic gear and I cannot find one of them either. So can you tell me the series of wires from switch to toggle to coil, distributor module? Please sir, just the bare minimum to make it run.
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Thursday, May 31st, 2018 AT 2:12 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,256 POSTS
Is the engine cranking over? or is it cranking over and not starting?

Here is a guide to help us start from scratch:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

Please run down this guide and report back.

Cheers, Ken
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Thursday, May 31st, 2018 AT 10:26 AM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
You have everything discussed to upgrade this to being like a 1979's Motorcraft system?

I have got to make some pictures and do some behind the scenes work to get the rest of this to you!

Please be patient, I will not forget about you!

I assume the key will go to the "on" position as it used to, to power everything up. If not, let me know the situation.

I worked this up. It should give you something to do for a bit.

If you do not understand something, let me know.

This will be the easiest was to "crank" the starter over.

Remember the post goodies can be swapped (if desired) Yours may be opposite of this diagram (which is fine). All accessories and the feed for the momentary switch stay with the battery cable side.

The starter cable will always be on a post by itself.

See my beautiful diagram below.

I will catch you up on the other stuff soon.

The Medic
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Thursday, May 31st, 2018 AT 4:19 PM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Man, am I glad to see this! I will get you pictures of the current wiring catastrophe. I can move the slide thing with teeth to the on position but it kept getting harder to do, I think something in the column has a sweet spot now that I cannot make happen every time. But I did but some toggle switches and a button. But there is a noticeable position where it stops every time, the sweet spot just made the dash brighter if that makes any sense, it is all I noticed it do. My wiring job ended like this out of desperation trying different combinations because the diagrams I was going off of were different from each other and I just got more confused.
Thanks for showing up I am not ready to give up! Out of the three Jeeps in my yard the CJ5 is my favorite and runs better than the others when it starts. Pictures coming soon.
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Thursday, May 31st, 2018 AT 5:59 PM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,256 POSTS
Nice, let us know what happens.
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Friday, June 1st, 2018 AT 7:23 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
  • MECHANIC
  • 11,004 POSTS
Alrighty then!

The reason I started answering on here years ago was I noticed that the Jeep CJ's (and other vehicles) were receiving vague/short and sweet/very technical answers. If I were a bit younger and more vehicle ignorant, I would have been mega lost and probably would have stopped replying just as they did.

So, my goal was to give all the information I could/ pictures (if possible) and have the patience to get my information through even the hardest of heads! Back then, I had no typing experience and had never tackled a home computer system ever. I want you to be running, have more Jeep knowledge with more "fix it ability", and lastly, you considering CJ MEDEVAC to be your new Jeep Buddy.

Being that I need outside help to get you going on this upgrade, I may be stepping out of bounds to get you this great information (I believe this may be one of your weakness'?).

Unless you are familiar with soldering, this is the next best thing you can do. It is fast and easy and is done most of the time. Some of the steps are good, but really not necessary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LBZR_XiEnk

Butt splicing-that is the ticket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVS1ynJqJmM

You are now ready to jump on this.

Your new module needs to be bolted down so that it grounds.

You may have to go back and forth between diagrams to get better views.

1) This is the upgrade like a 1979 - it must be connected exactly like this.

2) Lots of time making this (may be hard to see?). This is a partial 1977 diagram showing you where to tie in the feed wires for the '1979 system.

3) "Willy" (Restored in 1993) With a new 2017 paint job and insignia.

4) One of "Willy's" brothers in WWII, yep even now, 72 years later, I find those magnets stuck to mine when I get back out in the parking lot!

I did not show the 1979 coil connector being tied onto the old 1977 coil wires. If it is not clear as to what to do, let me know, I will fix you up.

Once we get it running, we will tune it up to get it all back to its correct settings.

Let's see some progress, or ask away, that is what I am here for.

The Medic

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Saturday, June 2nd, 2018 AT 9:21 PM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Thank you sir! Just glanced at the new diagram and it looks like exactly what I need. I will get out there today and see how it compares, and get you some pictures.
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Sunday, June 3rd, 2018 AT 7:02 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,256 POSTS
The Medic is our Jeep expert! Please let us know what happens.

Cheers, Ken
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Sunday, June 3rd, 2018 AT 11:33 AM
Tiny
CPTNHWDY
  • MEMBER
  • 13 POSTS
Thanks!
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Sunday, June 3rd, 2018 AT 11:56 AM

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