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No Start? Battery cranks starter, fuel gauge goes to 1/2 when key is on?

Tiny
CA7922303
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 TOYOTA AVALON
  • 3.0L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 292,000 MILES
Battery cranks starter, fuel gauge goes to 1/2 when key is on, goes to below empty when starter is engaged. Swapped around relays in fuse block in engine bay, no change.
Tuesday, December 13th, 2022 AT 2:27 PM

101 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

Chances are we either lost fuel pressure or ignition spark. Try this and let me know what happens.

See if the engine will start with starting fluid. If it does and then stalls, we know its fuel related. If there is no change, I need you to check for spark at the plugs.

Here is a link that explains how that is done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-for-ignition-spark

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, December 13th, 2022 AT 10:41 PM
Tiny
CA7922303
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Still no start using starter fluid. Cleaned and greased both battery cables. 1st attempt to start had fuel gauge maintain at 1/2 full. Check continuity of ground cable to engine exhaust manifold bolt. DMM reading continuity(sound), but (33 ohms resistance) getting same measurement ground cable to body frame bolt. All fuses and relay sockets are reading (12vdc) with key on.
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Wednesday, December 14th, 2022 AT 10:39 AM
Tiny
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Also, ran a jumper cable from battery ground to engine bolt and now measuring (1.5 ohms). Fuel gauge now holds at 1/2 reading, when cranking, but still no start. Tried another charged battery and fuel gauge holds at 1/2 full without jumper cable to ground, but still no start.
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Wednesday, December 14th, 2022 AT 3:57 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

Thanks for the update. By chance, did you check for spark at the plugs? If there was no change with starting fluid, that is my first suspect.

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, December 14th, 2022 AT 9:27 PM
Tiny
CA7922303
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No spark at plugs. Had 12.5+ volts and was jumping with another vehicle battery and no spark. Tried to check compression, but gauge is bad. At times it acts like it almost will start, like I'm hearing that it has compression, but no spark, no start.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 3:20 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

The no spark is causing a no-start condition. There could be other issues, but for certain, if there is no spark, it won't run.

If there is a tachometer in the vehicle, check to see if it moves when cranking the engine. Or, if you have a live data scan tool, check for an RPM signal when cranking it. If there is no signal or the tach doesn't move, my first suspect is the crankshaft position sensor. Take a look through this link and let me know if you feel anything mirrors what you are experiencing:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

Let me know. Also, if you have a concern related to engine compression, record it cranking and upload it for me to hear. I can usually tell if there is a compression issue by how it sounds.

Let me know.

Joe

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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 7:14 PM
Tiny
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I'm not seeing anything that looks like the article about crank position sensor. I just replaced one on a 01 Hyundai Santa Fe and it would not restart after a short run to the store. It would start and run with starter fluid though. This 02 Avalon will not with starter fluid. Are there fuses I should be checking in car or in engine bay that I may have overlooked. Do you have diagrams of all three (3) fuse blocks? Two (2) engine bay, one(1);passenger compartment? Thanks.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 8:00 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I attached what I have as far as fuses and what they are for. Anything that is related to the ECM would be something to consider.

By chance, did you check for an RPM signal? The most common cause of spark loss is a faulty CKP. If there is a signal, then I'm wrong. If there isn't, that is my first suspect.

Let me know. Also, let me know if I can help in any way.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 9:29 PM
Tiny
CA7922303
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I believe the tachometer was operational, but I'll have to verify tomorrow in the daylight. Thanks for your help.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 9:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Sounds like a plan. If you do have a live data scan tool, that is the most accurate way to confirm. If not, the tachometer should be moving.

Take care and I'll wait for your reply.

Joe
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 9:43 PM
Tiny
CA7922303
  • MEMBER
  • 139 POSTS
No tachometer movement when cranking. I have a new battery in it now. Fuel gauge is staying at 1/2 when cranking and ground cable to engine block bolt is near (0.00) ohms).
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 9:38 AM
Tiny
CA7922303
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  • 139 POSTS
Don't hear the fuel pump with the key on. What should I be checking on the fuel system? Don't see a Schrader valve on fuel line.
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 9:44 AM
Tiny
CA7922303
  • MEMBER
  • 139 POSTS
Disconnected fuel line from fuel rail. Turned key on and not getting fuel. Cranked engine and getting some fuel but not looking like much of any pressure on it.
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 10:07 AM
Tiny
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Correction: had a 2nd person check fuel line. No pressure with key on. A lot of pressure when cranking engine.
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 10:48 AM
Tiny
CA7922303
  • MEMBER
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Replaced crankshaft position sensor and still no start. Checking all fuses now.
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 2:14 PM
Tiny
CA7922303
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Just noticed tachometer still not moving after replacing ckp.
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 2:17 PM
Tiny
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Getting 0.5v and millivolts on some of the ECU fuse sockets inside vehicle. Are they all supposed to be 12v or do some differ?
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 3:07 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

If you are checking power at a fuse, there should be 12v. From the ECM, you will see 5v signals on some things.

The fuel pump should prime for about 2 seconds when you turn the key on and then it will stop. When cranking, it should be powered and running.

I'm starting to question the ECM. Have you confirmed there is no spark to the plugs? Also, have you rechecked to see if there are codes stored?

Let me know.

Joe

See pics below.
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 9:32 PM
Tiny
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If I remember right, it was ecu-ig #2(10a).
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 10:02 PM
Tiny
CA7922303
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ECU-ig #2 is measuring millivolts, not 5or 12v with key "on".
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 10:03 PM

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