No Start? Battery cranks starter, fuel gauge goes to 1/2 when key is on?

Hi,

Chances are we either lost fuel pressure or ignition spark. Try this and let me know what happens.

See if the engine will start with starting fluid. If it does and then stalls, we know its fuel related. If there is no change, I need you to check for spark at the plugs.

Here is a link that explains how that is done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-for-ignition-spark

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

take care,

Joe

Still no start using starter fluid. Cleaned and greased both battery cables. 1st attempt to start had fuel gauge maintain at 1/2 full. Check continuity of ground cable to engine exhaust manifold bolt. DMM reading continuity(sound), but (33 ohms resistance) getting same measurement ground cable to body frame bolt. All fuses and relay sockets are reading (12vdc) with key on.

Also, ran a jumper cable from battery ground to engine bolt and now measuring (1.5 ohms). Fuel gauge now holds at 1/2 reading, when cranking, but still no start. Tried another charged battery and fuel gauge holds at 1/2 full without jumper cable to ground, but still no start.

Hi,

Thanks for the update. By chance, did you check for spark at the plugs? If there was no change with starting fluid, that is my first suspect.

Let me know.

Joe

No spark at plugs. Had 12.5+ volts and was jumping with another vehicle battery and no spark. Tried to check compression, but gauge is bad. At times it acts like it almost will start, like I'm hearing that it has compression, but no spark, no start.

Hi,

The no spark is causing a no-start condition. There could be other issues, but for certain, if there is no spark, it won't run.

If there is a tachometer in the vehicle, check to see if it moves when cranking the engine. Or, if you have a live data scan tool, check for an RPM signal when cranking it. If there is no signal or the tach doesn't move, my first suspect is the crankshaft position sensor. Take a look through this link and let me know if you feel anything mirrors what you are experiencing:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

Let me know. Also, if you have a concern related to engine compression, record it cranking and upload it for me to hear. I can usually tell if there is a compression issue by how it sounds.

Let me know.

Joe

I'm not seeing anything that looks like the article about crank position sensor. I just replaced one on a 01 Hyundai Santa Fe and it would not restart after a short run to the store. It would start and run with starter fluid though. This 02 Avalon will not with starter fluid. Are there fuses I should be checking in car or in engine bay that I may have overlooked. Do you have diagrams of all three (3) fuse blocks? Two (2) engine bay, one(1);passenger compartment? Thanks.

Hi,

I attached what I have as far as fuses and what they are for. Anything that is related to the ECM would be something to consider.

By chance, did you check for an RPM signal? The most common cause of spark loss is a faulty CKP. If there is a signal, then I'm wrong. If there isn't, that is my first suspect.

Let me know. Also, let me know if I can help in any way.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below.

I believe the tachometer was operational, but I'll have to verify tomorrow in the daylight. Thanks for your help.

Sounds like a plan. If you do have a live data scan tool, that is the most accurate way to confirm. If not, the tachometer should be moving.

Take care and I'll wait for your reply.

Joe

No tachometer movement when cranking. I have a new battery in it now. Fuel gauge is staying at 1/2 when cranking and ground cable to engine block bolt is near (0.00) ohms).

Don't hear the fuel pump with the key on. What should I be checking on the fuel system? Don't see a Schrader valve on fuel line.

Disconnected fuel line from fuel rail. Turned key on and not getting fuel. Cranked engine and getting some fuel but not looking like much of any pressure on it.

Correction: had a 2nd person check fuel line. No pressure with key on. A lot of pressure when cranking engine.

Replaced crankshaft position sensor and still no start. Checking all fuses now.

Just noticed tachometer still not moving after replacing ckp.

Getting 0.5v and millivolts on some of the ECU fuse sockets inside vehicle. Are they all supposed to be 12v or do some differ?

Hi,

If you are checking power at a fuse, there should be 12v. From the ECM, you will see 5v signals on some things.

The fuel pump should prime for about 2 seconds when you turn the key on and then it will stop. When cranking, it should be powered and running.

I'm starting to question the ECM. Have you confirmed there is no spark to the plugs? Also, have you rechecked to see if there are codes stored?

Let me know.

Joe

See pics below.

If I remember right, it was ecu-ig #2(10a).

ECU-ig #2 is measuring millivolts, not 5or 12v with key "on".

Hi,

If that is a fuse you are referring to, that is an issue. As you mentioned, it should have 12v. Did you check power with the key both on and off?

Let me know.

Joe

Only with the key on. What does that particular fuse point ton if not reading proper voltage?

Point to if not reading proper voltage*

Code reader is linked up and shows no codes. Checking fuses/fusible links now.

EFI #2(7.5a) in fuse block engine bay, reads millivolts w/o key on. Rest of fuses read 12v/12v. EFI #2 reads 10.8v/10.8 w/key "on" with the rest of the fuses in fuse block.

All other fuses/fusible links/relays/relay sockets test good in engine bay.

Inside vehicle fuse block all fuses are getting 10.5/10.5v with key "on" except panel, Mir htr, tail, and a/c. Those four are reading (mv/mv) with key on. All fuses have continuity.

What do you make of EFI #2 not reading 12v/12v w/o key "on" and then 10.8/10.8 with key "on"?

Also, if that is an issue, do you have any wiring diagrams of the engine bay fuse block you can give a link to? Thanks.

Removed EFI relay and jumped. Now have 12v at EFI#2 fuse. All fuses inside vehicle fuse box are 10.6v with key on except tail, panel, htd mirror, a/c or a/t(unable to read it). Do any of those fuses only have voltage when engine is running?

When jumping EFI relay, I hear a relay in the direction of the starter engage. What relay would that be and any thoughts on why still no spark. Installed new ckp.

Hi,

If you jumped the EFI relay, that is why you have power at the EFI 2 fuse. Power from the relay is then sent through that fuse. When the relay is not actuated, the circuit to that fuse should be open. That could explain the millivolts you are getting. Also, when you jump it, it powers the circuit open relay which is designed to turn off fuel in the event of an accident. See pic 1

As far as the other components with millivolts inside the vehicle, they are the same things. If the relay to them isn't closed, you won't get voltage, so that too is normal. See pic 2

As far as the under-hood fuse box, I attached the powertrain wiring schematic for you. The schematic includes both interior fuses and under-hood.

Let me know if that helps.

Take care,

Joe

See pics below. Note: Starting with pic 3 is the beginning of the schematics. I had to cut each page in half to make it readable for you. I did overlap them so you can follow from one to the next.

Tachometer still not moving when cranking with EFI relay jumped. New CKP sensor from Advanced Auto (Car Quest brand sensor). I've heard aftermarket CKP sensors sometimes don't work on Toyotas. Do you agree and what voltages am I looking for bat the CKP connector and what should the resistance of the CKP be? Thanks.

Not finding #35 (a/c fuse-10a) on wiring diagrams? Am I assuming that I need to jump tail relay (for tail and panel fuse to get 12v), DEF relay (mirror htd) to get 12v? Can you also give me the location of tail and DEF relays? Thanks.

New CKP is measuring (2k ohms) resistance. CKP connector is only getting millivolts with key "on" and EFI relay jumped. What am I looking at here?

Hi,

The CKP resistance is right where it should be.

There should be a 5v reference to the CKP. See pic 1 below. If you aren't getting it, there could be an issue with the wiring or the connector at the ECM. If you are only getting millivolts at the ECM, the ECM itself may have failed.


Also, the tone ring, which is mounted to the crankshaft timing pulley, may be damaged. See pic 2.

Let me know.

Joe

Where does CKP get power from?

Disregard the previous question. No power source to two (2) wire CKP. Can you give me the location of CKP wires on the ECU connector? Thanks.

Can bad battery cause ECU to need manual reprogram? Can this be done by jumping pins 3 & 14 on the data link hookup?

Security light continued to flash this morning after inserting key and when turned to "on". Hasn't done it again since then. Could I have an intermittent security issue causing no start since nothing else is planning out? If so, what can I do to correct? Thanks.