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Crank no start issue

Tiny
CHRIS RABKIN
  • MEMBER
  • 2008 NISSAN ARMADA
  • 5.7L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 130,000 MILES
Hello,
I have the vehicle listed above LE Flex model.

Car drove and started fine last Tuesday. Wednesday am wouldn't crank or start.

Brother-in-law comes over (more automotively inclined than I am). After testing all fuses, modules, jumping, repeated ignition tries- starter turns over but no ignition. Starter fires up in short bursts with no hesitation now.

Ordered new ignition IPDM Relay and a refurbished IPDM module - tried swapping IPDM relay and fog lamp relays but no joy there either.

Friday the new parts come in.
Put in refurbished IPDM and new ignition module, no crank at all. Put back old IPDM and replaced the battery, back to the short bursts from the starter.

Replaced camshaft position sensor to resolve that code. Still the same short burst from the starter but no ignition. Tried multiple security reset methods but, any security system reset I find online doesn't work (kind of figured that they wouldn't).

My mechanic here is closed for Christmas- so I've hit a wall. I need some help.
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Monday, December 16th, 2019 AT 12:11 PM

13 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

Can you explain what is meant by the starter engages in short bursts? Also, if it is possible, can you record the starter so I can hear what it is doing and upload it here?

You also mentioned security resets. Is the anti theft light staying on all the time or flashing?

Let me know.
Joe
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Monday, December 16th, 2019 AT 2:59 PM
Tiny
CHRIS RABKIN
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Joe,

Security light flashing not constant. Short burst meaning that the starter cranks for 5 to 6 seconds and stops no matter how long you turn the ignition to start, probably automatically controlled by the computer. I will get a short video and edit this post.
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Tuesday, December 17th, 2019 AT 6:42 AM
Tiny
CHRIS RABKIN
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Here is a short video of what the starter is doing. Forgive my distracted talking, my 6 year old was running around in the dark and I was trying to do this and wrangle her at the same time.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/N5tG6GKX5cJrVAB76
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Tuesday, December 17th, 2019 AT 5:04 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi Chris:
I did listen to your video. Also, I think it's great you were with your 6 year old. I totally miss those days.

Anyway, the starter shouldn't turn itself off like it's doing. That's the bad new. The worse news is I feel there is a problem with a component called the integrated power distribution module (IPDM). The IPDM contains both a starter relay as well as a starter inhibitor. The purpose of the inhibitor is to prevent the starter from running after the engine starts. Now, without extensive testing, I can't tell you if the relay or the inhibitor is bad. However, neither one is serviceable on this vehicle.

If you take a look at the wiring schematic below, it shows specifically what I am referring to. If you look at pic 2, it shows all the different things the IPDM controls. Pic 3 shows the location.

The part isn't cheap and I wouldn't want to recommend you replace it without being 100% sure. If you could let me know how confident you are with diagnosing electronics, I will try my best from here to guide you. Also, and as just a simple test, see if it does the same thing if the transmission is in neutral. Believe it or not, the relay is initially actuated via the transmission control module (TCM). It's really a long shot, but won't hurt to try.

I will watch for your reply.

Joe
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Tuesday, December 17th, 2019 AT 7:52 PM
Tiny
CHRIS RABKIN
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Joe,

The IPDM module was completely swapped out with a refurbished one last week. This resulted in no crank at all, so I put the original back in. I still have the refurbished one, and I can do 2 things today, 1 test the start in neutral with the original IPDM and all original relays in place to see what happens, 2 I can swap the original IPDM with the refurbished one which came with different relays and test to see what happens if anything different.

Also, I mentioned in my OP that I did purchase a new Nissan 284B7-CW29E Relay ECM relay and swap that out on the original IPDM.

If you can guide I can follow.

Thanks for your help- The 6 year old is our surprise, proof that God has a serious sense of humor.

Thanks,
Chris
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Wednesday, December 18th, 2019 AT 5:56 AM
Tiny
CHRIS RABKIN
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Okay, so I did the following today- 1 with the original IPDM installed. I put the Armada in neutral and attempted to start. Still get the short start.
Removed the original IPDM and swapped with the refurbished one - no crank at all. Put in Neutral, same - no crank at all.

So were back to where we started with the original IPDM module installed I included pics of the pulled original IPDM and the second hand one.

Here is another video from today with the truck in neutral and original IPDM installed:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/gk7JZV6UXEWzEPd4A

In the photo - the IPDM with the Blue Dots on the Modules is the "refurbished" one. The fuses don't exactly match up,but they are on the positive side (meaning some 10amp fuses are replaced with 15 or 20 amp ones) I don't think going up on the amps would cause it to not function at all. The plan was to install, get to crank and replace all the fuses with correct volt new ones.
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Wednesday, December 18th, 2019 AT 2:48 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Chris,

God does have a sense of humor. LOL I bet you're a great father. I have to ask. Do you have access to a quality scanner? I am questioning other things. There are no indications that it could be related to the anti-theft, correct? Also, and I hate asking this in case I missed it above, but have you checked for spark and fuel to the engine?

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, December 18th, 2019 AT 6:32 PM
Tiny
CHRIS RABKIN
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
I do have access to a quality scanner. Let me know what I need to do. Anti-theft is probably not the issue. The indicator light is flashing as it always has, and fob unlocks doors.

Have not checked for spark or fuel to engine, no indication that we needed to check that but I can try and get my Brother-in-law over and check for both.
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Thursday, December 19th, 2019 AT 6:08 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Okay, first, check to see if there is spark and fuel to the engine. Let me know what is found. Next, you indicate the security light is flashing as it always has. I have to double check, but that doesn't sound right. The light should turn off when you turn the key to the run position when starting. Please confirm that for me.

Joe
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Thursday, December 19th, 2019 AT 7:05 PM
Tiny
CHRIS RABKIN
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
The light does turn off when the ignition is turned with the fob or the valet key. Has always been this way through the whole process.

Should also mention that we had the fuel sending unit recall done a couple years ago - I noticed on some other forums that it has been mentioned that this not being performed could be an issue.
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Thursday, December 19th, 2019 AT 7:17 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Okay. I misunderstood. That sounds correct.

Let me know what you find with the other things. I'm starting with spark and fuel because even with the limited cranking, it should be enough to start the engine. I want to know which is missing because it may point me in a specific direction. Hope that makes sense.

Take care,
Joe
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Thursday, December 19th, 2019 AT 7:46 PM
Tiny
CHRIS RABKIN
  • MEMBER
  • 8 POSTS
Okay, so here is the final fix for this: Ended up being multiple things. ECM relay, Ignition Control Module/Relay, Crank Shaft Position Sensor just behind oil pan under car, and one other Engine Sensor- I cant remember what it exactly was. The mechanic I was working with said there were 3 engine sensors and 2 were failing. So all was replaced- prior to that we were able to manually start the armada with starter fluid sprayed in the air flow intake.

So if you are having this issue and you have a 2008 - 2010 Armada/Titan, you may need to replace all of these mentioned items.

Thanks Joe for your help- bouncing things off of you definitely helped.
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Sunday, January 12th, 2020 AT 8:17 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Glad to hear you got it fixed. And you are very welcome. Let us know if you have questions in the future.

Take care,
Joe
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Sunday, January 12th, 2020 AT 4:09 PM

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