Vehicle will not start

Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
Everything aligns just as instructed. Each of the three times I have set the timing I have set it as directed. I truly believe the timing is set accurately. At no time have I encountered any resistance.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
Welcome back:

Well, we need spark, fuel, compression, and timing. Have you confirmed all of them?

Joe
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
Having been told the timing was somehow off. I removed the heads again to see if I had damaged anything and to have the heads rebuilt at a local shop. The man at the shop said he thought the timing was off because of what I explained was happening. This leads me back to one of the diagrams you sent when I first started asking you about me problem. Picture # 25 shows how everything is supposed to look with all the timing marks lined up. I noticed that the crankshaft notch does not align with the marks on the chain. It seems to be one link off. I have set the chain to the mark. Am I wrong? Each of the timing marks in this diagram have links before and after the marked link that have numbers but no explanation about those numbers. I have set the timing four times and each time I set it to the diagrams in my shop manual and to the specs you gave me. How can the timing still be off?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
Welcome back:

It has to be exactly what it shows. If there are no marks on the chains, then you have to count links between each of the components. It is a pain.

Joe
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
There are marks on the chains. Please explain how the image in picture 25 seems to show the timing mark off at the crankshaft by one link. I will send photos of my timing and the marks to you later.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
Here are the photos I said I would send. The first one shows the crankshaft mark and the chain and also the mark. As you can see they are correct. The next two are of the right head and shows the timing marks are aligned as instructed after the crank has been moved back to the 11 o'clock position (TDC) from the three o'clock position. The last two show the chain alignment marks to be in the correct position also. This is how I have set the timing four times. The mechanic I hired to come out and test everything said all the electrical checked out to be good. He also said he believed the timing was off. Of course you have to put everything back together before you can try to start the engine. That makes it hard to see the timing marks. The shop I took the heads to also said he believed the timing was off because of what I told him is happening. There is no damage to the heads. With the timing set as it is the engine will not start, and all symptom seem to indicate the timing is off. Please, look at the picture number 25 and tell me if. The marks on or off. I do not have the chain set as pictured but as instructed.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
Welcome back:

It's hard to tell for sure looking at it from an angle, but it appears correct.

Joe
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
Again, I ask you to look at that picture # 25 and tell me if it appears the timing marks are on or off. This is important to me as it may supply some insight as to what I'm doing wrong. I wish I could have gotten better pictures but holding the camera and hitting the shutter button while looking at the image was not much fun.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
Welcome back:

That is what I said. It appears to be correct and mirror picture 25. It is just hard to be 100% with the angle.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
I look carefully at the image in picture # 25 and I see the timing mark on the crankshaft and the mark on the chain do not align. Please, should I do the same with my timing mark? I have had the timing marks on in the three other times I put this thing together and still have trouble with not starting.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
That is a good question. The marks on the timing chain and the pulleys should align. The best thing I can suggest at this point is to count links between the marks. If you count links and it is off, that will be wrong. However, please confirm that the chain isn't marked wrong. Anything is possible.

The info I gave you was from Alldata. I checked Prodemand also and they are the same. Here is the count for the links from Prodemand. These two sites are the best available.

I attached two pics from Prodemand. The first explains counting the links and the second is their pic of the timing marks.

Take a look. Not being there makes this really difficult for me, and I apologize for that. All I can say at this point is I agree with you. The links should be on the marks. If you did it that way, it should be correct. Did you do a compression test when you had it together?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
Yes, I did a compression test before I began the tear down with the lowest reading for number one cylinder was 188, and the highest were number five and six with 212 lbs. Remember, this was before I started to work on the engine. After the first tear down I did another compression test and was surprised at the test results, that being averaging about 145 lbs. Just before I took the heads off to have them reworked I did another compression test and the results were a little lower, about 140 lbs. With number three going as low as 125 lbs. That is when I decided to remove the heads and have them rebuilt, believing I may have damaged something. Nothing was damaged but I did have two burned valves. I know there are a number of things that will keep the engine from starting. I just watched on YouTube a video of a ford escape not starting and to the surprise to the mechanic the problem was the water sensor. Go figure! This picture is the very one that looks off at the crankshaft. The link marked does not align with the timing mark on the crank.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
And, yes I did count the links and there are 27 links between two marks. 12 links between two other marks and 30 links from the last mark and the first one.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
I have forwarded this link to another mechanic to get his input. He owns the site and may have a different perspective of what is happening.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,643 POSTS
Lets start by seeing the engine turn over I can tell whats going on from the sound if the engine is okay, then we can go from there. Can you please shoot a quick video with your phone so we can see what's going on? That would be great. You can upload it here with your response.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
Thanks. When I get together I will do that. Meanwhile, if the pulse wheel is put on wrong could that cause my problem?
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
More on the pulse wheel. I watched a YouTube by Charles and cars, before I started to take the heads off, who said the pulse wheel is aligning the key-way with the empty slot. That is what I have been doing these past three times I put this together and each time the engine wan't start. My manual is equally confusing, just says to put it on. My question is this. I watched another YouTube that was in Spanish with poor translations. From what I get in this video is both key-way slots on the pulse wheel have a purpose. If the wheel is installed correctly you should see the timing mark on the chain of the right head in one of the key-way slots. Is that correct? This makes sense to me because if the crankshaft key-way is at the 11:00 o'clock (TDC) when the pulse wheel is installed this way the yellow spot on the chain can be seen through the other key-way slot, and the blank spot on the pulse wheel is pointing to the sensor. This implies to me that the sensor is telling the PCM to start over. I really believe that my problem is going to be something really stupid!
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
Welcome back:

I'm going to jump back in here. This pulse wheel is used in several different engines. It has to be installed with the key-way in the slot stamped "25-25-34Y-30M"(color blue). Is that what you've been doing?

Joe
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
DWAIN JONES
  • MEMBER
  • 27 POSTS
Yes. I haven't received the heads back from the shop yet. When I do I will record how this thing tries to start. In the meantime, i'm still puzzled by other pictures of the pulse wheel. Some show it the way you say, and some show it installed the other. All with the "front" facing front.
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
Welcome back:
The info I provide is right from Alldata. Honestly, I've never had an issue with their information. With that, I would recommend following what is indicated.

Joe
Was this
answer
helpful?
Yes
No
Wednesday, August 12th, 2020 AT 1:35 PM

Please login or register to post a reply.

Sponsored links