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Possible rain water under valve cover, engine will not start

Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 2001 BMW 330CI
  • 3.0L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • 196,000 MILES
Valve cover was stupidly left sitting on top not bolted down when a huge thunderstorm went all night. Hood was closed but there are hood vents over the rear spark plug wells. I had just replaced new spark plugs earlier that day. After the rain next day, I pull plug 5(2nd from the back) and there's maybe inch of water in well that fell down. Engine won't start. I changed the oil and dried all 6 spark plugs and ignition coils overnight, of course keeping them in order. Still won't start. I can't see any water at all under the valve cover around the camshaft rods. Tries to start but just won't. I'm getting desperate!
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Saturday, April 11th, 2020 AT 3:10 PM

32 Replies

Tiny
KASEKENNY
  • MECHANIC
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We need to start with checking for spark. I would pull a plug and hold it against the block and crank the engine. We need to see a strong blue spark.

I suspect if they got wet that they are not delivering a proper spark. This could be the plug or a poor connection from the boot to the plug.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-cranks-but-wont-start

If the engine was starting prior to this then we have most likely have an ignition issue because that is what is going to be affected with water. I am sure we still have water somewhere.

Let's start with checking for spark and going from there. Thanks
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Saturday, April 11th, 2020 AT 3:55 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
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Well, I also put the old spark plugs back in and still am getting no start. Ignition coils were taken apart and cleaned as well. Think it's deeper than that but I don't know what else to check.
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Saturday, April 11th, 2020 AT 5:23 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Okay. We need to confirm if we are getting spark to the plugs or not. Basically this is either a fuel issue, spark, or compression. Based on what happened we can assume it is spark but we need to find out if the plugs are firing in order to go back in the system to find where the issue is. I doubt the engine getting water in it is causing a no start. I suspect it is water getting into an electrical component or connector that is preventing the plugs from firing. However, we need to confirm the plugs are not firing by pulling one out and connecting the coil and holding it against the block then cranking the engine. If we have no spark we can chase that issue. However, if you have spark then clearly there is another issue and we can try spraying starting fluid in the intake to see if it is a fuel issue.

Let me know and we can go from there.
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+1
Sunday, April 12th, 2020 AT 12:49 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 19 POSTS
So there's spark from each ignition coil to each spark plug. Cleaned the MAF sensor properly. Now I'm thinking maybe water in the intake?
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Monday, April 13th, 2020 AT 12:38 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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You can pull the intake tubes and look down the throttle bore for signs of water. Basically water spots is what you are looking for. However, if the hood was closed and the only thing that was done was the valve cover was loose then I doubt the water got in the intake. However you do need to check.

Just to clarify what you said, have you confirmed the plugs are actually firing? Pull one and hold it against the block?
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Monday, April 13th, 2020 AT 7:25 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
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  • 19 POSTS
I used an inline spark plug tester. Don't have another person to crank the engine.
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Monday, April 13th, 2020 AT 7:57 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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I understand. What was the issue prior to this? Was it a no start as well? Assuming the plugs are firing we need to circle back and run through other causes of no starts. However, if the engine was starting and running fine before this water issue then we may need to find someone to crank the engine for you.

At this point, I find it hard to believe that water in the plug wells and then down into the motor is causing a no start due to you changing the oil and drying the plugs.

Let me know the original issue and we can go from there. Thanks
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Tuesday, April 14th, 2020 AT 6:15 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 19 POSTS
Original problem was the disa valve (intake manifold valve). OEM is all plastic. I replaced with aluminum parts. I had that disa valve, air intake filter, and valve cover all off the car. With the Valve cover sitting crooked, not bolted down, the intake manifold exposed on the side bec no disa valve, and MAF sensor exposed. However. Hood vents are very small only covering a small area near cylinders 5 and 6. Intake manifold is dry and a bit dusty. And because the engine (at idle) choked on me the other day and stopped after 2-3 seconds of starting, I'm thinking very slight hydro-lock maybe? But I just can't find the water. Starting to worry if it's water somewhere, which seems most likely to me, it's gonna rust something if I don't find it soon. When I pull the plugs and crank engine by hand, no water shows anywhere.
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Tuesday, April 14th, 2020 AT 6:43 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Hyrdolocked engines normally don't turn if the water is still in there. Water doesn't compress so it locks the engine. If you try to turn it over, it bends things inside the engine.

If you think you still have water in the engine, pull the plugs and crank the engine. This will push all water out the exhaust or plug holes. However, I am actually thinking there is a different issue. Have you checked for codes?
https://www.2carpros.com/articles/checking-a-service-engine-soon-or-check-engine-light-on-or-flashing
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Tuesday, April 14th, 2020 AT 7:19 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 19 POSTS
After reading codes i'm not getting anything in particular that would stop car from starting. Stupid question. I've owned car 3 years and stupidly never changed fuel filter on 19 year old vehicle. Could fuel filter cause car to stall, choke, and couple starts later give up and not start anymore? It makes sense to me but I don't know for sure. Replacing tomorrow either way. I feel stupid. Starting to wonder if that was problem all along. Does that make sense to you? DM-TL pump is also leaking but I don't think that'll stall the engine. Ordered new one anyway.
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Thursday, April 23rd, 2020 AT 5:38 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Yes. A plugged filter will definitely cause this issue. That would be quite a coincidence but definitely needs to be changed either way as you mentioned. Will wait to hear some good news on this one when you get it replaced.
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Thursday, April 23rd, 2020 AT 5:57 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 19 POSTS
Not the fuel filter although it seriously needed changed! Changing MAF sensor and DM-TL pump, whatever that does on Wednesday.
I'm getting codes:

P0313 Misfire detected w/Low Fuel
P0505 Idle Air Control System
P1447 DM-TL (Diagnostic Module
Tank Leakage) Pump Current Too.
High During Switching Solenoid Test.
P0102 Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit Low.
And again P0313.
.
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Friday, April 24th, 2020 AT 6:03 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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The P0313 is just a generic code of a misfire and low fuel. Have we tried using starter fluid in the intake then cranking the engine to see if it fires for a second or two? Just spray about 3-4 bursts of starter fluid and then crank the engine and see what happens.

Also, can you get a video of what the engine is doing when you crank the engine? Basically I just want to hear what it sounds like.
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Saturday, April 25th, 2020 AT 9:10 AM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
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  • 19 POSTS
Here's a video.
Video (Click to make bigger)
Thumb
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Saturday, April 25th, 2020 AT 1:47 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 19 POSTS
Sprayed brake fluid (all I had) three times in throttle body and quickly ran to try start it to no avail. Don't have two people. But didn't start.
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Saturday, April 25th, 2020 AT 1:50 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 19 POSTS
If it won't start using flammable liquids that shows it is not a fuel issue right? Changed fuel filter w/built in pressure regulator yesterday. Before and after changing filter I hear the pump sending fuel to the filter when turn key to "on" position. I used to run it very low on fuel when was in school and had no money for about two years. I know that can affect the pump but I do hear it sending fuel to filter. There's also pressure at the fuel rail via the purge valve. Wouldn't the pump set off a more specific code? Replacing both camshaft sensors, crankshaft sensor, MAF sensor and DM-TL pump Wed/Thurs either way. I did notice today the MAF sensor has crack in the plastic right around the sensor.
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Saturday, April 25th, 2020 AT 2:14 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Okay. With the crack in the MAF that could be an issue but if you unplug the sensor the PCM will just us a default value and set a code but should still start.

As for the starter fluid, you are correct. If it does not start using it then it is most likely not a fuel issue. Due to hearing the pump and fuel is a good sign but is not definitive. The starter fluid is more definitive. Just give it 3 good bursts of fluid and then try to crank the engine and see if it fires.
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Sunday, April 26th, 2020 AT 6:24 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 19 POSTS
Yea, I'll get more starter fluid tomorrow. Tried starting it with MAF unplugged that doesn't work either.
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Sunday, April 26th, 2020 AT 6:26 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Okay. I have high hopes on the starter fluid. Will wait to hear back. Thanks
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Sunday, April 26th, 2020 AT 7:27 PM
Tiny
TIM BOWEN
  • MEMBER
  • 19 POSTS
First off I just have to thank you for all your input! It means a lot to have help on this! I can't help but fear the worst. I've been trying to recollect exactly what happened that day it started and shut off. After the water got in the spark plug well and camshaft overnight, I dried it and put it all back together. Did not crank engine by hand first like should've. I tried starting it, it ran rough maybe 2-4 seconds and abruptly choked. Never started again. Oil was not milky when changed. I personally think ignition or compression, but I'm no Pro, clearly. I just worry there's internal damage and if that's the case, and I use starter fluid, wouldn't that make the damage worse if it's compression issue? Was never any smoke or loud grinding-metal noise when it happened. Just wanted to get your thoughts on that before try firing it up again with fluids.
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Sunday, April 26th, 2020 AT 11:17 PM

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