Is this normal for a crankshaft on a 1MZ-FE engine?

Tiny
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  • 1998 TOYOTA SIENNA
  • 3.0L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 199,000 MILES
So, my timing belt broke at a slow speed and I've slowly been DIY with the help of Siennachat and YouTube videos being that it's a non-interference engine also referred to as freewheeling, I'm not expecting any serious issues but if you look at my photo, as well as the first photo looks like the same situation, the lower teeth of the teeth of the crank don't appear geared with upper teeth the timing marks are there but it looks like the upper gear is missing, as you can see in a photo of the lower cover part of the belt was wound several times behind the lower cover and tore up the lower timing cover the balancer was not damaged, could it have been damaged like the crankshaft itself, when the belt broke, or is it possible I have a replaced after market block that it was already missing before the belt broke? Is this gear that's missing part of the block and I have to replace the block now, or is the crankshaft that needs to be replaced? Either way I'm screwed. I hope that's not the case. The last Second to last photo is what it should look like I need to know if there is any concern about the crankshaft gear or I can just move on with the water pump replacement and timing belt till than I can't move on. Thanks
Original question posted here but no replies so far: https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/is-this-normal-on-a-1mz-fe-crankshaft.1754399
Saturday, April 1st, 2023 AT 10:55 AM

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Tiny
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Hello, it looks like you have it correct. The mark on rear trigger wheel looks lined up. Will post service info showing the correct marks for the crankshaft and the camshafts. If you clean up the area on the engine block where it says Toyota, the mark will be easier to see.
Just make sure when putting the new belt on that you get any slack in the belt on the side/area where the tensioner is, so the tensioner takes up the slack and none of the cams move.
A trick that can help is when you have the timing belt marks lined up on each cam with the mark on the belt, using tie wraps to temporarily hold the belt on the camshaft sprockets helps a lot. Are you replacing the tensioner or idler pulleys? And need the torque specs for either?
That small mark on the front crankshaft gear is to line up with the timing belt line as seen in the 3rd diagram. It shows all the timing marks. Here's the torque specs for the water pump. 4th diagram.
Here are the rest of the timing belt installation specs and details.
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Saturday, April 1st, 2023 AT 2:45 PM
Tiny
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I appreciate what you are saying and providing but I know the timing marks are right and how to proceed, my concern lies with the difference between my crankshaft and the ones in the photos not matching with the upper and lower teeth if that makes sense?
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Saturday, April 1st, 2023 AT 3:18 PM
Tiny
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The 1st and 4th picture are your crankshaft gear correct? And the 3rd looks like one showing where the mark is supposed to be lined up. When you say upper and low teeth of the gear, what kind of difference are you seeing? They look fine to me from what I can see in the pictures. Is there something wrong with the lower teeth that is not visible in the photos?
Unless you're referring to the photo with the arrows pointing to the mark on trigger wheel and the crankshaft at TDC.
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Sunday, April 2nd, 2023 AT 9:49 AM
Tiny
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Actually the 1st picture is mine, the 3rd picture was supposed to be the different one, but it is also like mine the 4th picture Is like mine, I mixed up the 3rd picture of what I believe is the way it's supposed to look like I'm including it now. (You should be able to notice the difference right away it's got a red oval marking it) between the two I posted and this one I presume all are 1MZ-FE but the one I'm including now may not be or perhaps it was the interference engine before Toyota changed it to non? If it helps the picture was shared with me on Siennachat and was part of this discussion on Toyotanation Reffering to "crankshaft toning wheel" https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/1mzfe-cam-lobe-orientation-in-tdc.1631982/page-2 I was jist watching yet another video
onYoutube and froze a frame from https://youtu.be/2EEp_QCDWjY and captured it and I'm starting to think what is seen in the picture is nothing more than a trick of lighting ill upload or so you can see. That said id you look at the next photo which is from endeavor auto https://youtu.be/QSeyg-pb_8o there clearly is at 7:12 something there not a trick of lighting. If I have any other related questions should I ask you or should I post a new question?
Thanks for your help.
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Sunday, April 2nd, 2023 AT 11:19 AM
Tiny
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All the 1998 Sienna's have the 3.0liter 1MZ-FE engine, even all 3 sub models CE, LE, XLE. That posting is all over the place, The small mark on the trigger wheel for the crankshaft position sensor is where it should be, lined up with that hump you have circled. The marks on the timing belt are there to get everything where it should be after releasing the tensioner. With the 3 timing marks, (1 on the crank, and 1 on each cam, ) the number 1 piston is at Top Dead Center on its compression stroke. Once the belt is on and everything is lined up, the tensioner is released, you rotate the crankshaft 2 rotations, and recheck the camshaft marks, they should be lined back up. That whole post on that forum looks to be confusing people more than anything. These are all 3 timing marks. There is no other engine for this year listed in the service info. All 3 sub models have the same timing marks, same engine. 1998 is the first year the Sienna is listed, there isn't anything for 97'.
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Sunday, April 2nd, 2023 AT 12:27 PM
Tiny
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Okay, so there is nothing there that's missing good, on a related subject I recognized a gold-colored metal covering part that is in the lower right quadrant of the crankshaft got bent out of shape by the belt. I just learned c from a video. It's the belt retainer and has to be taken off to take belt off so obviously I will have to take it off before I put the new belt on and then put it back on. I took it out and straightened it as well as I could put it back and it seems the sprocket can move freely, hopefully this is, okay? I'll upload a picture of what it looked like before I straightened it out and one of it straightened.
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Sunday, April 2nd, 2023 AT 1:45 PM
Tiny
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Once you get the timing cover back on and the harmonic balancer back on, then the crankshaft bolt in, the crankshaft gear will be held in place by the rest of that. This is a diagram of the belt guide.
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Sunday, April 2nd, 2023 AT 4:06 PM
Tiny
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Thanks I think I see how that works, now I have a new problem I can't get the water pump out (interestingly at least to bolts to the water pump were loose which makes me wonder if it already replaced?) Without taking the back timing cover off and just like with the crankshaft bolt I fought, I finally got it off using the bump starter trick, I'm fighting the front camshaft bolt and can't budge it, I'm using a camshaft holding tool and breaker bar. I'm not a big guy and I'm thinking I'm going to need one or someone with an air ratchet. All I have is a lousy harbor freight 1/2-inch electric. I can't even fit.
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Sunday, April 2nd, 2023 AT 5:21 PM
Tiny
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It looks like that back timing cover is supposed to come off for access to the water pump, but there's something to think about, if that camshaft bolt breaks off, for whatever reason it is going to open up a whole new can of worms. I've had cam bolts that would never come out, even on a brand-new cylinder head. I've had the cam holder tools break on me. So, if you think the water pump has been done already and it's not leaking. I would leave it. Unless you can get one cam sprocket off and get behind the back timing cover, semi out of the way, I'm not sure how much room that would give you. But you don't want to break the cam bolt's head off. That would leave you having to drill it out or more likely have to replace the cam. The cam bolts are not as strong as the crankshaft bolt. I just don't want to see you in a situation that can go from bad to really bad. It looks like the drive side cam is 94ft lbs torque and only 65ft lbs for the other cam.
It's possible that the engine has been apart before, and that's why you're having to fight with bolts. Trying an air impact gun might work, but a breaker bar is how it will break off. 94ft lbs isn't so much, you should be able to do that by hand. Just be careful.
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Sunday, April 2nd, 2023 AT 6:06 PM
Tiny
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I can sure appreciate what you are saying and your concern about the bolt breaking off, unfortunately before the timing belt broke, I was already leaking coolant only when the engine was off and cold, so that was a sign that it wasn't the thermostat, and more likely the water pump or seal, it never over heated I conferred with a local mechanic from my parents church and he said so long as I keep refilling the coolant I could drive it so that's why I did, but I just an epiphany, I mentioned there were a couple bolts that seemed loose on the pump, I just did a quick search and that happened to a guy after a build 2 bolts backed out and coolant started leaking, so it's possible that's why it was leaking, not the pump or seal but that bolts being loose would make it so it's not sealed right? How the heck could have those bolts gotten loose, do they require Permatex on them? Testing it, I figure is as simple as tightening it up, adding fluid and seeing if it leaks overnight, since that's what's it's been doing with the engine off and cold. I suppose I could just skip the pump, just buy a new belt kit minus the pump, if I can find one since most come with the pump and go that route and hope for the best. I'm not concerned about seals and what not, I don't expect to keep the van for another year.
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Sunday, April 2nd, 2023 AT 7:13 PM
Tiny
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Yeah, I would definitely tighten up the bolts and 2 nuts for the water pump if they're loose. That tells me that someone else has been in there already and obviously didn't torque things to spec. That would explain why the cam bolt is so tight too. But instead of taking a chance of breaking that cam bolt. Tighten up the water pump bolts, here's the spec on them, it is the 4 bolts and 2 nuts, and the torque spec only being 53in lbs, so it's not that tight at all. The real test to see if it will leak is to either put it all back together and run it and the coolant system will pressurize when it gets up to operating temperature. Or Auto Zone and other auto parts stores actually rent out tools, so you could rent a coolant pressure test kit and pressurize the system up to about 15psi and see if it leaks that way, that is about the max you want to get the pressure up to. Any more than that and you risk the heater core leaking or hoses. So, you could do it that way, that will prevent you having to take the whole thing apart again if it does happen to leak. The coolant pressure kit is just a pump that hooks onto the radiator cap opening, or reservoir, wherever you fill the coolant. And it has a pressure gauge on it. You just pump it up the 15psi and check for leaks. It has different fittings for different vehicles. That is probably your best option. The bolts for the water pump can come loose from normal engine vibration, especially if they were not torqued correctly to begin with. Then if the pump does leak, take things from that point. Is it the driver side cam bolt that is giving you the trouble?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/radiator-pressure-test

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-is-leaking-coolant
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Monday, April 3rd, 2023 AT 12:42 PM
Tiny
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The cam bolt giving me trouble is the front one vs the back one I don't know if that's the driver side. So, I'm sorry to say but I think the water pump is shot, after tightening up the 4 bolts and 2 nuts I don't have a torque wrench need to get one, tried to not over tighten, anyway it didn't take long to figure out where its leaking from, I added coolant and as soon as I did that it started leaking from right behind the water pump pulley, weep hole? If that's what that is I took some video and uploaded it, looks like I'm going to have no choice but to change the pump, by the way for what it's worth, last summer I took it to a repair shop, and they ran a pressure test and it failed. I'm going to have to find a way to break that over torqued cam bolt without breaking the head. Thanks
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Monday, April 3rd, 2023 AT 2:55 PM
Tiny
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Yeah, that's looks like the weep hole, the internal seal must have failed. I see that cam is on Bank 2 towards the front of the vehicle, that is the one that is torqued to 94ft lbs. It looks like that number 3 timing cover is the rear one, they should have designed it differently. Having to remove the cam sprockets to get a water pump out seems extreme. If that cam bolt starts to move, try spraying something behind the cam sprocket onto the whatever section of the bolt that might be exposed, if you can get something on the threads it will help.
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Monday, April 3rd, 2023 AT 5:01 PM
Tiny
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I looked at the diagrams and I see what you mean just to clarify the rear cam sprocket has to come out to access the water pump. Yes, seems extreme. If I can get the cam bolts off and sprockets I might as well do the seals too.
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Monday, April 3rd, 2023 AT 5:42 PM
Tiny
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Yeah, the entire rear timing cover needs to come out, considering most of the water pump is exposed already, their design is frustrating. I know how difficult some of these can be. Hopefully things go okay for you. I'm not sure if you have the valve covers off, but there might be something more to hold on to under the valve cover. Some camshafts have square sections where you can get an open-end wrench on the camshaft for a better hold. I'll look through service info some more for you and see if there's anything else helpful. It's not clear if there are square sections on these cams, I'm looking for some parts images.
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Monday, April 3rd, 2023 AT 5:53 PM
Tiny
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No, I haven't got the valve cover off, I'm not comfortable with anything related to the valves or the cover, I once replaced a valve gasket on an old Datson but that's the only experience I have, if there is no other way, I will take the cover off otherwise I'm not bold enough to. Interestingly in this video https://youtu.be/JMa1EoRMSxs at around 5:20 he's able to cheat the water pump out without taking out the rear cam sprocket.
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Monday, April 3rd, 2023 AT 6:20 PM
Tiny
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Update, got the bolt to break water pump is out no sign of gasket photos attached.
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Thursday, April 6th, 2023 AT 5:24 PM
Tiny
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I can see the gasket; did you get a new one yet? It will come with a gasket, just be sure to clean the mounting surfaces off really good, and don't get any oil on the new gasket. Torque spec is 53in lbs for the water pump bolts and nuts. Check that there isn't any coolant in the oil before starting the vehicle too.
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Friday, April 7th, 2023 AT 1:08 PM
Tiny
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No I've held off until I had everything off, good thing I have, as you know I was able to get someone stronger to break the camshaft bolt, ironically while loosening the inner tensioner bolt the one on the left the bolt broke, sheared off leaving most of it in, so if you put your finger up to the hole it lays flat, my first thought is to easy it out with a bolt extractor but I found a post https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/belt-tensioner-bolt-broke.428207 on Toyota Nation same thing happened to a Corolla owner he was told he needs to remove the engine to drill the bolt out since there is no room for even an angle drill, I hope this isn't the case for Sienna any thoughts or suggestions?
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Friday, April 7th, 2023 AT 5:44 PM
Tiny
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Was it the number 2 idler pulley in the diagram, the upper one with the center bolt? It's difficult tell you without really seeing how much room you have, which I'm sure is not much because of the engine being sideways in the engine compartment. Unfortunately, service info has the engine being lowered out the bottom with much of the sub frame being removed along with the suspension. I'm not sure if it's possible, but if you can angle the engine up on the left side to be able to drill that bolt out. Most engines do come out when bolts like that break. I only thing I can think of is using a 90degree air ratchet to try drilling it out. Pulling this engine is more work than you want to get into. Plus, it looks like you'll need a lift to do it as well. Real sorry this happened, it was a worry from the beginning.
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Friday, April 7th, 2023 AT 7:05 PM

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