Intermittent no start and stuttering under acceleration

Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
  • MEMBER
  • 2007 NISSAN 350Z
  • 3.5L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 115,000 MILES
I have two issues going on with my car that I'm not sure if they are related or independent of each other. However, they started happening at the same time.

The first problem is that it will not start. It wont even try to crank. I have found this is typical when it is up to temperature. I haven't noticed it when the car has sat for a few hours or over night. When I turn the key it makes no sounds other then you can hear things like the relays clicking on and what not. It doesn't have the normal clicking sounds as when the battery is dead. I have had the battery tested and its charge is good. The connections on the battery are solid. One thing I did notice that is on the little gear selection screen. When it starts normally it shows a P when I turn on the key. I know it wont start if I turn the key and this screen is blank. Once the P comes back after a few seconds to minutes of trying to start I know it will start that try.

The second problem. When I am at a stop and accelerate at a normal speed the car stutters at around 1,000 rpm almost like it dies and comes back on. If I hard accelerate it doesn't have this issue. The last time I drove it today it actually did die after switching to drive from reverse and beginning acceleration. I have put it in park and slowly revved the motor and it will stutter at around the 1,000 mark when I do this. If I rev it quick there isn't a stutter noticeable. I am guessing maybe this problem is fuel or spark related?

The codes I am currently getting are:
U1000 Can Comm Circuit
U1001 Can Comm Circuit
P0420 TW Catalyst Sys-1
P0430 TW catalyst Sys-B2

The P0420 and P0430 have been present on the car most of the time I have had. I am told it has aftermarket catalytic converters and they are causing the codes but I can not confirm this.

I have a scanner that can show live data of sensors if this is helpful.
Sunday, August 16th, 2020 AT 6:39 PM

23 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

The problem starting sounds like it is related to the transmission range sensor. If the vehicle doesn't recognize what gear it is in, it won't start.

With the codes you have, the U codes are specific to the CAN bus system. There is a break down of communication between the modules which can be associated to the non communication with the range sensor/transmission control module.

I don't know what kind of scan tool you have but I'm going to provide the diagnostics for both of the U codes you have. The U1000 is the one I can break into the transmission related issue. I will provide that first. The attached pics correlate with the directions.

__________________________________________________________

2003 Nissan-Datsun 350Z V6-3.5L (VQ35)
Transmission Control System
Vehicle ALL Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) Testing and Inspection U Code Charts U1000 Transmission Control System
TRANSMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM
DTC U1000 CAN COMMUNICATION LINE

Description
Controller Area Network (CAN) is a serial communication line for real time application. It is an on-vehicle multiplex communication line with high data communication speed and excellent malfunction detection ability. Many electronic control units are equipped onto a vehicle, and each control unit shares information and links with other control units during operation (not independent). In CAN communication, control units are connected with 2 communication lines (CAN H line, CAN L line) allowing a high rate of information transmission with less wiring. Each control unit transmits/receives data but selectively reads required data only.

On Board Diagnosis Logic
- This is an OBD-II self-diagnostic item.
- Diagnostic trouble code "CAN COMM CIRCUIT" with CONSULT-II or U1000 without CONSULT-II is detected when TCM cannot communicate to other control units.

Possible Cause
Harness or connectors (CAN communication line is open or shorted.)

DTC Confirmation Procedure

NOTE: If "DTC Confirmation Procedure". As been previously conducted, always turn ignition switch "OFF" and wait at least 10 seconds before conducting the next test.

After the repair, perform the following procedure to confirm the malfunction is eliminated.

WITH CONSULT-II

pic 1

1. Turn ignition switch "ON". (Do not start engine.)
2. Select "DATA MONITOR" mode for "ENGINE" with CONSULT-II.
3. Start engine and wait for at least 6 seconds.
4. If DTC is detected, go to "Diagnostic Procedure" below.

WITH GST
Follow the procedure "WITH CONSULT-II".

Diagnostic Procedure
1. CHECK CAN COMMUNICATION CIRCUIT

With CONSULT-II
1. Turn ignition switch "ON" and start engine.
2. Select "DATA MONITOR" mode for "A/T" with CONSULT-II.

Pic 2

3. The "CAN COMM CIRCUIT" is detected.

Yes or No?
Yes >> Print out CONSULT-II screen, GO TO 2.
No >> INSPECTION END

2. CHECK CAN COMMUNICATION SIGNALS

With CONSULT-II
1. Turn ignition switch "ON" and start engine.
2. Select "CAN COMM SIGNALS" in "DATA MONITOR" mode for "A/T" with CONSULT-II.

>> Print out CONSULT-II screen, go to "Precautions When Using CONSULT-II".

Pic 3

CAN Communication Signals

_______________________

2003 Nissan-Datsun 350Z V6-3.5L (VQ35)
CAN Communication
Vehicle ALL Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) Testing and Inspection U Code Charts U1001 CAN Communication
CAN COMMUNICATION
DTC U1001 CAN Communication Line

Description
CAN (Controller Area Network) is a serial communication line for real time application. It is an on-vehicle multiplex communication line with high data communication speed and excellent error detection ability. Many electronic control units are equipped onto a vehicle, and each control unit shares information and links with other control units during operation (not independent). In CAN communication, control units are connected with 2 communication lines (CAN H line, CAN L line) allowing a high rate of information transmission with less wiring. Each control unit transmits/receives data but selectively reads required data only.

On Board Diagnosis Logic

pic 4

On Board Diagnosis Logic

DTC Confirmation Procedure
1. Turn ignition switch ON and wait at least 3 seconds.
2. Select "DATA MONITOR "mode with CONSULT-II.
3. If 1st trip DTC is detected, go to "Diagnostic Procedure" below.

EC-CAN-01

pic 5

Wiring Diagram

Diagnostic Procedure Step 1

pic 6

Diagnostic Procedure

_____________________________________________

As far as the drivability, it could be related. You mentioned there are aftermarket converters on the vehicle, so I don't know if other things have been modified. If you can, let me know what the short term fuel trims are so I can see of the sensors are working and how the PCM is reacting.

Take care,
Joe
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Sunday, August 16th, 2020 AT 8:46 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
  • MEMBER
  • 21 POSTS
Joe,

Thank you so much for the quick reply and abundance of information! I will read through it a few times and do the instructions tomorrow when I get off work and report back. Thank you again!
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Sunday, August 16th, 2020 AT 8:54 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
No problem. I have to be honest, with the right equipment it shouldn't be too hard to find. However, without it, it can become a nightmare. If you can follow the procedures, it should lead you to the issue. Please note that the U1000 can be specific to the trans and the engine. Since you mentioned the issue with the park indicator, I feel that is the direction you need to go. Certainly, that will cause the starter not to engage.

Let me know if I can help. I'll try my best from here. LOL

Take care,
Joe
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Sunday, August 16th, 2020 AT 9:14 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
  • MEMBER
  • 21 POSTS
Okay, so I got home and hooked up my scan tool. I have a Innova 5610 "Car Pro" if that helps. I don't seem to be able to get into anything that shows me information like shown in the pictures you included. The U1000 and U1001 does come up on the engine module.

One thing I did notice however is that when I turn on the key and leave it for a couple minutes in the on position I can hear some relays or something kick and the P on the gear selection screen goes away and the car won't start then a moment later it comes back. I let it just do it's thing for a few minutes and it kept going off and coming on all with different audible clicks happening under the hood. Some times there is a few seconds between the off on and other's it's rapid on, off, on, off.

Also I do not see where I can view fuel trim. All I see is Fuel Sys 1 and Fuel Sys 2 both show CL.
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Monday, August 17th, 2020 AT 7:32 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
  • MEMBER
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Okay, I think I found the fuel trim list as STFT and LTFT. These numbers are at idle and do move within 1% +/-:
STFT B1 12.5%
LTFT B1 0.0%
STFT B2 11.7%
LTFT B2 0.0%
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Monday, August 17th, 2020 AT 7:48 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
  • MEMBER
  • 21 POSTS
Sorry for all of the comments. I just found in the ABS system the U1000 fault.
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Monday, August 17th, 2020 AT 7:52 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Where are you hearing the clicking while the shift indicator is flashing? Take a look at the attached pic. The item I circled is the park position switch and the park interlock switch. Could the sound be coming from that area?

By the way, the fuel trims look good.

Joe
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Monday, August 17th, 2020 AT 9:26 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
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It sounds as if it’s coming from near the IPDM or the other relay box by the battery.
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Monday, August 17th, 2020 AT 9:55 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,747 POSTS
Hi,

Do me a favor. Check to see if it is the shift lock relay. You should be able to feel it by placing your fingers on the relay. I attached a pic below.

If that is the relay, switch it with a different one having the same part number. Or here is a link that explains how to test one:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Let me know.
Joe
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 6:15 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
  • MEMBER
  • 21 POSTS
I have not been able to get the car to recreate the issue or throw the u1000 or u1001 code all night.

I had someone turn the key on while I touched the shift lock relay add felt nothing. But again I couldn’t recreate the clicking the sounds. I took out the relay and inspected it and it passed and looks very clean.

I drove around for awhile and stopped to turn off and on and worked every time. However I am still getting the stuttering when accelerating from a stop. There are no codes for that either. In fact there are no codes present right now.

I have a video of my scan tool when I rev and the stuttering happens. You Can see the fuel trims and rpm's. You can hear in the video where the motor cuts out as I rev as well.

I will update if anything else arises while looking over everything. I am double checking all of the module connections and grounds.
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 8:01 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

It is possible that by removing and reinstalling the relay it is not making a good connection. See if that changes. As far as the fuel trims, they look good. For some reason I have no column to hear what is happening and I can't quite see the RPM's on the scan tool.

Joe
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 8:05 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
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I only just removed it today after you mentioned it and reinstalled it. I made sure it got a firm connection when reinstalling. Yeah the upload really ruined the quality. If you can see when the camera jerks around really bad that’s when it is stuttering. It’s so abrupt it moves the whole car. I have no clue where to begin looking without any codes, lol.
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 8:10 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Did the RPM's skip on the scan tool or anything when you felt the misfire? Without codes, it is going to be tough. I have a feeling the relay had a bad connection with the start issue. Lets hope that is resolved.

For the misfire, you have checked the basics such as fuel pressure, for vacuum leaks, and also have you checked wiring to the crankshaft position sensor? Also, you did scan the entire can bus system, correct?

One other question, what RPM does that seem to happen?
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 8:49 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
  • MEMBER
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The RPM did skip on the scan toll. I’m not sure if that’s just because of a delay in processing or something. The tachometer would come down and it would take a moment for the scan tool to catch up sometimes.

I will have to check fuel pressure and crankshaft sensor wiring. I’m guessing I’m checking for continuity on the wires for the crank sensor?

I did do fall scan on all modules and cane up with nothing.

It seems to happen at around 1,000-1,100 rpm's.
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 8:54 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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The reason I asked about the RPM's is because if the crank sensor stops sending a signal, you will lose spark. Also, the RPM signal would be lost. Check the wiring to it. The sensor itself may be going bad. Take a look through this link:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

Interestingly, a faulty sensor may not set a code. I attached a pic below of the sensor location. It is a bit vague. LOL Let me know if it helps.

Joe
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 9:03 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
  • MEMBER
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That pic is vague haha. I’ll find it though. This does make sense because it is after the car is up to temperature when it starts cutting out. And that’s really what it feels like is that the engine completely shuts off and turns back on. I don't know if I mentioned though if I accelerate hard it will not do it or at least not noticeable. I will check out the sensor tomorrow when I have daylight though.
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 9:09 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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It's below the bank 1 throttle control actuator. Here is another pic that may be more helpful.

Per Alldata:
"The crankshaft position sensor (POS) is located on the oil pan facing the gear teeth (cogs) of the signal plate."

Joe
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Tuesday, August 18th, 2020 AT 9:18 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
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So the wiring is good. I tested the wires and sensor with the multi-meter and everything seems fine. If I were to lose RPM signal would my on dash tachometer display that? I have seen no change to the tachometer when this happens.
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Wednesday, August 19th, 2020 AT 6:24 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

That is correct. You would see the tachometer jump because it would lose signal.

With no codes and nothing seeming out of the ordinary (other than the problem), we may have to wait until it gets worse. You are certain that all grounds to the body and engine are good, correct?

Joe
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Thursday, August 20th, 2020 AT 10:04 PM
Tiny
JIM JACKSON2
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Problem is haven’t been really driving it because of the issues lol. Correct I have double checked and cleaned and tightened the grounds. I did replace the spark plugs today because why not and they were I believe the original plugs. I haven’t driven it since replacing them. I left the throttle bodies off and will clean them and the MAF's tomorrow. Because again I have them off and why not, lol.
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Thursday, August 20th, 2020 AT 11:11 PM

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