Excess heating

Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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Difficult to do the block check as coolant kept coming out of the radiator even when first starting. It ran green from what I could tell. Also this may indicate a blockage in the radiator if my theory is correct. I think I maybe on the right track?
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 8:26 AM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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The other 1994 Sunbird as comparison does also push some coolant when uncapped but not half as much as this one which flowed out like a river.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 8:53 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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If you mean the coolant was being pumped out of a cold engine just from starting, that is not a good sign. It shouldn't do that until the coolant gets hot and starts to expand. If your kit is a pressure test kit, install it on the radiator on a cold engine, then start it and see what the pressure does. If it starts to rise instantly you have either a defective gasket or a crack somewhere, either block or head.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 8:57 AM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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The pressure starts almost immediately. Since I rebuilt everything except the bottom piston black assembly, I have little confidence that the blockage is from that but the radiator is not flowing through, so that must be the culprit. Anyway the radiator has been in there for over 14 years and I will change it out next week.
Wish me luck.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 9:07 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Pressure starting immediately isn't from a blockage. It is from combustion gasses in the system. Before you swap the radiator there is a simple test that can be done to see if you have an internal problem. It is sort of a reversed compression test. You remove the spark plugs and apply air pressure into each cylinder with the piston in a spot where both valves are closed. Usually this is done at Top Dead Center. It is like a leak down test but doesn't require a tester, although using one wouldn't hurt. You lock the engine from turning and apply 100-120 psi air into the cylinder. Then look into the radiator for any bubbles. If any show you have an internal engine problem. I like to also check with the piston lower in the cylinder but that can be difficult without taking the camshaft out to be sure the valves stay closed. What this does is put the same pressures that compression has inside the cylinder and you can find out if there is a crack anywhere. Even in the block itself.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 3:04 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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I would still like to replace the radiator and worst case to perform the test you recommend.

Let me ask: if the coolant system is not purged of gasses during the initial refill process, would it also possibly react the same way with initial pressure upon startup?
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 3:17 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Nope, if it still had air in it it would actually react the opposite way as the air takes longer to expand from the heat. That is why an air pocket in the system causes problems, it doesn't allow the coolant to get to the parts and can cause steam pockets if the engine does get hot and the coolant suddenly hits the hot surfaces. However that takes a while to happen. From a cold start it should take 2-3 minutes for the coolant to even start to get real warm. The only pressure in the cooling system should be caused by the expanding coolant. Nothing else causes pressure, the pump just circulates the water. From a cold engine start the coolant starts to expand as it gets hot, in a modern system the pressure increases until it either overcomes the pressure cap on the radiator and gets pushed into the reservoir or it expands in the coolant bottle. If you take the cap off and start the engine the coolant should set there until the engine warms up. Any pressure in the first minute is not a good thing. I just don't want you to replace the radiator and then discover it still has a problem.
You mentioned it had this issue before you replaced the other parts. If it got very hot there is a possibility of a crack in the block or the head. You say you rebuilt the head, did that include checking it for warpage or cracks?
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 4:48 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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Thanks Steve. I found an adapter to fit a pressure fitting into each spark plug hole.

To find the top dead without removing the side cover/cam drive gear will be a challenge but I believe I do have an additional paint mark I made at the piston end pulley.

I will try this during the next week.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 5:42 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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Yes, I checked for warpage/flatness but only a visual on all the piston cylinder services.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 5:44 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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Another stupid mistake upon review of doing the block check. I had to pull the thermostat as the block check plug will not fit into the radiator because of clearance. This would contribute to the instantaneous coolant flow I think (?) If that's the case it would explain this issue.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 6:21 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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It would allow flow but shouldn't cause it to overflow. But put the thermostat back in and see what it does.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 6:32 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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Unfortunately, I dumped the radiator coolant already. One thing I can tell you is when I compared the performance of the other Sunbird I have, in removing the cap to check if it would overflow. It did but not in a great amount. This was in approximately one minute operating.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 7:03 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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That would be about the time it would take for the coolant to start to get warm, in a full system that is working okay it sounds about right for it to fill the neck and start to leak as it expands. But it shouldn't come pouring out.
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 7:51 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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I will refill the radiator and put in the therm. See if we get slight flow verses streaming river.

Thanks Steve!
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Thursday, July 16th, 2020 AT 8:05 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Let us know what it does.
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Sunday, July 19th, 2020 AT 12:58 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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Will do. Thanks for your continued support.
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Sunday, July 19th, 2020 AT 5:09 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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Good Day Steve.

Replaced the therm and refilled coolant to level. Good news even after 5 minutes no overflow. The heat did rise but I did not let it approach the 220F. Taking readings of the rad surface did not yield any cold spots so I do not know what to do.
The radiator is easy to replace and have it here so I may just go ahead and for piece of mind just replace it. (Was not expensive under $100.00.)
I would not do the procedure on back pressure/cylinders at this time.
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Monday, July 20th, 2020 AT 8:19 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Modern engine run about 210 degrees or even a bit hotter. I wouldn't worry unless it truly overheats. Then I would check the cap as well because they hold pressure that raises the boiling point of the coolant.
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Monday, July 20th, 2020 AT 1:59 PM
Tiny
ARNOLDLAUSEVICH
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It maybe that the gauge reading is in error? I do know that previously heat was a factor as it caused smoke and almost a state of lock-up (not good) I will monitor the block closely with my therm. I have not yet changed out the rad so hopefully that will be the solution.
If not, I may need to drive it to a mechanic- the last and expensive resort.
I will back flush the system before I do a fill as I have a special fitting already installed on the top rad hose. I need to make sure I minimize any air pockets.
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Monday, July 20th, 2020 AT 3:04 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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It could be the gauge, the only way to know that would be to measure the temperature with a mechanical gauge in the same spot and see what it shows. However if it got hot enough to lock up you may have other damage internally. While it was that hot was any water or coolant added to it?
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Wednesday, July 22nd, 2020 AT 7:09 AM

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