Crank no start?

Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 1988 CHRYSLER LE BARON
  • 2.2L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 199,999 MILES
Car just shut off, and didn't hear the fuel pump coming on, so I replaced the fuel pump relay. Still no fuel pump. So, I ran a wire from 12-volt from battery to positive terminal on coil pump comes on and car starts but as soon as I take the 12 volts away car shuts off. Now it won't start at all. So, on the relay there's power on the big red wire turn the key on power to smaller blue wire, but not the other small blue wire but touch the test light to the wire with no power. The fuel pump comes on, the test light is dim. The cooling fan comes on when I touch the same wire. I need help.
Monday, November 27th, 2023 AT 5:02 PM

41 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,053 POSTS
Hi,

Which relay are you referring to? If the fuel pump is turning on when you touch one of the wires with a tester, it sounds like there is a bad ground and you are providing it with the tester.

Is it the automatic shutdown relay (ASD) you are referring to? Let me know. I'm trying to look through wiring schematics, but they are extremely limited because of the model year. However, based on your description, it sounds like the ASD relay is faulty or the ECM isn't providing a ground path to actuate the relay.

Let me know.

Joe
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Monday, November 27th, 2023 AT 9:10 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
It said it is fuel pump relay in one of the diagrams on this site it's the only black plastic relay the other 3 are metal relay.
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Monday, November 27th, 2023 AT 9:23 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,053 POSTS
Hi,

I attached a pic below showing the location. Let me know if that is what you are referring to.

Also, I have the same vehicle. LOL I ordered it in 1987. I wanted a convertible. It now has 9,000 miles on it. LOL

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Monday, November 27th, 2023 AT 9:35 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Yes.
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Monday, November 27th, 2023 AT 9:57 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Yes, that's the relay I changed.
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Tuesday, November 28th, 2023 AT 12:08 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Oh yeah, other thing when the key is the off position the RPM needle goes up to 4,000 then switch the key to the on position goes down to 1,000 car not running.
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Tuesday, November 28th, 2023 AT 12:49 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
If the ECM is providing a ground, how do I fix that?
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Tuesday, November 28th, 2023 AT 3:12 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,053 POSTS
Hi,

If the ECM isn't providing a ground path, check to make sure it is grounded where it mounts. If it has a good ground, chances are it is faulty.

The tachometer is interesting. It sounds like there is a short at the relay allowing power to back feed to the coil. Were the wires and connector in good condition at the relay?

Joe
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Tuesday, November 28th, 2023 AT 8:33 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Are you talking about the ASD relay that is shorting out? There's another plug that the one wire comes on when I put the test light on it but nothing is hooked up to it is that a diagnostic port.
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Tuesday, November 28th, 2023 AT 11:20 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,053 POSTS
Hi,

Is it possible for you to take a pic of the connector you are referring to and upload it for me to see it?

Also, try to see if there are diagnostic codes. Here is a link that explains how to retrieve them. You don't need any tools.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/retrieve-trouble-codes-for-chrysler-dodge-plymouth-odb1-1995-and-earlier-car-mini-van-and-light-trucks

As far as a test connector, there should be one near the ASD. See pic below.

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Wednesday, November 29th, 2023 AT 8:22 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
So, I did the diagnostic on my car and came up two codes 12 and 42.
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Thursday, November 30th, 2023 AT 4:06 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,053 POSTS
Hi,

Okay, the two are tied together. Code 12 is related to the single module engine controller (SMEC) and the 42 is related to the automatic shutdown (ASD). (See pics 1 and 2 below).

What I need you to do is remove the 60-way engine controller connector, check pin 41 for power, and check if pin 58 provides a ground path when the key is turned on.

Pics 3 and 4 show the pin legend and the connector pinout. I highlighted the pins that need to be checked. Also, make sure they are not damaged, corroded, or bent.

Let me know.

Joe

See pics below. Note: The SMEC is behind the battery and has an air cleaner duct connected to it.
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Thursday, November 30th, 2023 AT 7:11 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
So, I tested the pins and there's power in 41but pin 58 comes on when I ground it with test light.
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Sunday, December 3rd, 2023 AT 3:52 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Is that a bad computer box?
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Sunday, December 3rd, 2023 AT 3:53 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,053 POSTS
Hi,

When you checked pin 58, did you have the alligator clip connected to the battery positive and then probe pin 58? That pin should supply a ground path, so if it does and we still have a no-start, chances are it is something different because it sounds like the module is doing what it should. Confirm that for me so I know which direction to go next.

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, December 3rd, 2023 AT 9:50 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Okay, yes, when I touch pin 58 and pos it does turn the fuel pump on.
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Sunday, December 3rd, 2023 AT 10:46 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,053 POSTS
I need you to check pin 58 with the relay removed to determine if a ground path is being provided by the module or if you are just getting a ground path because the relay is then sending power to the pump.

If I recall, the relay is new, correct? If that is the case and the pump turns on only when you send power to pin 58 with the relay removed, the module sounds like it has failed internally.

Let me know.

Joe
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Monday, December 4th, 2023 AT 6:51 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
Okay, so, I unplugged the relay put the alligator clip on the pos side of the battery and key on probed pin 58 nothing happens, then put the relay back on then probed pin 58 fuel pump comes on but no start.
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Thursday, December 14th, 2023 AT 1:33 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 110,053 POSTS
It sounds like the ECM isn't providing the ground path you need to complete the circuit. When you reinstall the relay and apply power, it is actuating the relay and sending power.

I suspect the ECM is faulty. You should get a ground when the key is first turned on to prime the pump. If that isn't present, then either the ECM is faulty, or the wiring is open.

Joe
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Thursday, December 14th, 2023 AT 8:26 PM
Tiny
JERRY ULLOA
  • MEMBER
  • 36 POSTS
It does when I put the alligator clip on the negative post.
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Friday, December 15th, 2023 AT 5:21 AM

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