Bad performance

Tiny
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Hmm, The mileage not being bad? It being a bigger heavy vehicle with a fair amount of wind resistance on it. Maybe its just the normal way those are. If there was a problem with restriction, function or something like that your mileage would be bad. I've never driven one to know whether they normally have good pickup or not. Something to consider also wold be the gear ratio in the rear end. If it has a rear end in there to get better mileage it wouldn't have any get up and go. Maybe we should look into that?
Tom
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 11:21 AM
Tiny
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As I mentioned earlier, my wife has the identical van but hers shifts and gits when you step on it.
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 11:29 AM
Tiny
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Okay,

We should try to see if the have different rear end ratios then just to see. How about the mileage she gets with hers? Yours not having horrible mileage makes me wonder because if there is a failure or something not right it would show up in a loss of mileage.
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 11:40 AM
Tiny
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Yes my thoughts exactly, hense me doing this research.
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 11:42 AM
Tiny
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If you count the bolts around the rear differential we can identify which one it is and its ratio.
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 11:54 AM
Tiny
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Mine is 3:73 and hers is 3:42.
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 12:35 PM
Tiny
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Well,

That would be part if it. The only other thing I could think of that would make the engine work harder (especially on take off). And sound wise it definitely does make feel like its struggling to go is if your radiator fan clutch is locked up. If you try to spin it it should have some resistance but move freely, its centrifugal so at idle it allows the motor to develop its power then as the rpm's increase it will start to engage. This gets the motor to hit its torque power level then it will put resistance on the motor. It's worth taking a look at that too.
Tom
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 1:34 PM
Tiny
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Yes, I can hear it release when it reaches operating temperature in the mornings. Bet you never expected to be hit with a crazy challenge like this aye Tom? LOL
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 1:41 PM
Tiny
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Lol.

Well, we have gone through a lot of possibilities. No light on, no codes, no noises is pretty blind for sure but soon as you mentioned the mileage isn't off and the second video showing that the rig is kicking down and the engine is gaining rpm's at a level that a van with wind resistance that's telling me most likely nothing has failed and it would be a performance setting. Which there still can be a calibration issue or computer input to tell the computer which gear it should be in. Now we know the rear ends are different maybe the PCM doesn't know that. If there was resistance or things of the sort the mileage would be horrible. I think the tact we should take is to see if the calibrations that can be done would be something that would let the PCM know which rear end is in it. Someone very well could have changed the rear end to get better mileage and not done what would be need to tell the PCM of the change. Make sense?
Tom
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 2:25 PM
Tiny
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It used to be a church bus before I got it. I doubt they put that much thought into it. But yes it makes sense. About the differential; those are the numbers per RPO sticker on each van, not sure if that's what is actually in there.
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 2:35 PM
Tiny
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A quick call to the dealer with the VIN should get us the info to see which rear end was in it from the factory and what the PCM thinks in in there.
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Thursday, August 27th, 2020 AT 2:40 PM
Tiny
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I'm a Chevrolet man of the 1970's and 1980's so I'm not real familiar with these LS engines yet. With no distributor, how do you check for worn timing chains without disassembling the engine?
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Friday, August 28th, 2020 AT 4:36 AM
Tiny
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Hello,

Well that's a good question, in the old days you would be looking at the rotor for change here the cams so the valve cover comes of. The other symptoms of the chain and guides being bad would be noise and misfire. I don't think its the issue, I think you should take a good look at the timing chain cover and try to see any form-a-gasket or anything to lead us to believe it was taken apart or if the cover is still factory with the factory installation. Then let me know maybe we have to pay attention to the actuator.

But here, this is the system that matters for a timing issue the actuator maybe is suspect
Camshaft Position (CMP) Actuator System.

The camshaft (CMP) actuator system is an electro-hydraulic operated device used for a variety of engine performance and operational enhancements. These enhancements include lower emission output through exhaust gas dilution of the intake charge in the combustion chamber, a broader engine torque range, and improved fuel economy. The CMP actuator system accomplishes this by, changing the angle or timing of the camshaft, relative to the crankshaft position. The CMP actuator simply allows earlier or later intake and exhaust valve opening, during the four stroke engine cycle. The CMP actuator cannot vary the duration of valve opening, or the valve lift.
During engine "off", engine idling conditions, and engine shutdown, the camshaft actuator is held in the park position. Internal to the CMP actuator assembly is a return spring and a locking pin. During non-phasing modes of the camshaft, the return spring rotates the camshaft back to the park position, and the locking pin retains the CMP actuator sprocket to the camshaft. For the Gen IV small block engines, the park position for the CMP actuator and camshaft is, 8.5 degrees before top dead center (BTDC), which is equal to 17 crankshaft degrees BTDC, to the next cylinder in firing order. The engine control module (ECM) can only command the CMP actuator to retard the valve timing from the park position, or advance the valve timing back to the park position. The total range of valve timing authority is 31 degrees of camshaft rotation, which is equal to 62 degrees of crankshaft rotation. The control range is from the park position of 8.5 degrees camshaft, or 17 degrees of crankshaft BTDC, to 22.5 degrees camshaft, or 45 degrees crankshaft, after top dead center (ATDC).
CMP Actuator System Operation
The camshaft position (CMP) actuator system is controlled by the engine control module (ECM). The ECM sends a pulse width modulated, 12-volt signal to the CMP actuator solenoid to control the amount of pressurized engine oil, into the CMP actuator. A low reference circuit, or ground wire between the CMP actuator solenoid and the ECM completes the electrical circuit. The frequency of the pulse width modulated signal is fixed at 150 Hz. To regulate the pressurized engine oil into the CMP actuator, the solenoid uses electromagnetic force on the solenoid pintle to pulse the oil control spool valve. The pressurized engine oil is sent to unseat the locking pin, and to the vane and rotor assembly of the CMP actuator, to either retard or advance the valve timing. The ECM will control the amount of ON time applied to the solenoid, through the 12-volt signal from the ECM.
The ECM uses the following inputs before assuming control of the CMP actuator, and to calculate the optimum valve timing.

* Engine speed
* Manifold absolute pressure (MAP)
* Throttle position angle
* Camshaft position sensor (CMP)
* Crankshaft position sensor (CKP)
* Crankshaft/camshaft correlation
* Engine coolant temperature (ECT)
* Closed loop fuel control
* Engine oil pressure (EOP)
* Engine oil level
* CMP actuator solenoid circuit state

CMP Actuator Solenoid Circuit Diagnostics
The engine control module (ECM) monitors the control circuit of the camshaft position (CMP) actuator solenoid for electrical faults. The control module has the ability to determine if a control circuit is open, shorted high, or shorted low. If the control module detects a fault with the CMP actuator solenoid control circuit, DTC P0010 will set.
CMP Actuator System Performance Diagnostic
The engine control module (ECM) monitors the performance of the camshaft position (CMP) actuator system by monitoring the calibrated desired position, and the actual position of the camshaft, through the 4X signal of the CMP sensor. If the difference between the actual and desired position is greater than a calibrated angle, for more than a calibrated amount of time, DTC P0011 will set.

This truck isn't turbo is it? What about the size of the tire? Are they the stock size or the same as the comparison van

Here is why I ask about Turbo because it must be and we have been chasing our tails looking for everything besides the obvious. Is this your motor in the attachment below?

Let me know,

Tom
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Friday, August 28th, 2020 AT 9:56 PM
Tiny
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God no! I kinda wish it was a turbo, just a factory LS 6.0 best of my knowledge. Got OEM size tires. But the CMP actuator system you describe I haven't heard it called that before, I know it as VVT (variable valve timing) and that was one of my original questions. You originally felt that wasn't my issue.
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Saturday, August 29th, 2020 AT 2:36 AM
Tiny
KEN L
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I would try a new MAF sensor it sounds like the metering if off telling the computer the engine is not taking in air like it should. Also service the throttle bore as well. Here are two guides to help walk you through:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-a-mass-air-flow-sensor-maf

and

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/throttle-actuator-service

Please run down these guides and report back.
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Monday, August 31st, 2020 AT 6:26 PM
Tiny
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As mentioned earlier I am not getting any codes set or check engine light. It seems like both of those conditions would definitely trigger a code and an MIL
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Monday, August 31st, 2020 AT 11:12 PM
Tiny
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Good morning,

I curious about your combustion efficiency, with a good burn and everything working right you should be getting water drips out of your tail pipe. Take a look at that, let me know if you have a clean burn with water coming out of the pipe or if you have black carbon build up on the inside of the exhaust pipe. Also don't remember if you said whether or not the clutch fan is locked up or not. I think you just said you could hear it not that you went out and feel how much resistance it had not running. Ken does have something with the MAP. Does you scanner have live capabilities? If so we might be able to get some direction at watching that while driving.
Let me know.
Tom
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Tuesday, September 1st, 2020 AT 8:01 AM
Tiny
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Yes I get drops of water, and also some black carbon but not a lot. Yes, my fan clutch is working, and yes, I can read limited live data. I have a Blue Driver code reader. It's pretty good after market unit.
https://www.bluedriver.com/products/bluedriver-scan-tool
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Tuesday, September 1st, 2020 AT 11:37 AM
Tiny
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Okay, that's interesting to have both because the water is showing the engine is working good or has perfect combustion but having the carbon on there is saying that something is wrong with combustion and its loading up. It usually is one or the other. Are you having better or worse take off when its cold as opposed to it being warmed up? I wondering if there is something happening with the engine temperature changing the condition. Of the burn. Can you send me a freeze frame of the live data for the oxygen sensors to see the catalytic function when your pushing the engine. We have to have a problem there in the catalytic's with all we have gone through and if the MAP is truly working fine, Ken does have a good point with that possibility, we have to have them partially clogged.
Tom
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Tuesday, September 1st, 2020 AT 8:09 PM
Tiny
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Well, there is no freeze frame data saved when there is no MIL and since it never sets any codes there is no data saved. I'll try to send live data image. The first one is at 60 mph and the second one is WOT.
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Wednesday, September 2nd, 2020 AT 5:52 AM

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