A/C clutch not engaging

2001 GMC SIERRA
18,700 MILES • 6.0L • V8 • 4WD • AUTOMATIC
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FRO250
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Truck listed above is an 1500 HD.
About 8 weeks ago I started having trouble with my truck starting. The starter wouldn't crank intermittently. I thought it was the key ignition switch, because it is tricky to turn back into axillary. But it turns out it was just the starter. I replaced the starter about 6 weeks ago and around that same time I noticed my A/C wasn't working. The A/C light on the dash is illuminated showing A/C on. If the Freon is low it will just flash a few times and then stay off. But it isn't doing that now it just stays on. But I tried to put more in, but it didn't take very much. I may have over pressured it.. When I depress the A/C button I hear what sounds like a damper changing position, but the blowing air isn't being cooled. I bridged the low pressure switch, but the clutch didn't engage. I checked the coil and it was open. Clutch coil failed. I couldn't find a new coil so I got one from the auto wrecker. I bench tested the clutch and it works. I tested the clutch again after install by applying 12 volts. A/C clutch works great. I bridge the terminals at the A/C relay and clutch engages. Bad thing is I tested the clutch with the engine running and had the clutch engaged for a minute or 2. It still didn't blow cold. I swapped the AC relay with the horn. Both relays good. 10 amp fuse is good and has 12 volts there. I can't find any fuses under the hood nor under the dash in the cab that are blown. I also bridge the high pressure switch, but and I think it is reverse acting. I ordered a scanner of Ebay that is supposed to do all diagnosing for GMC Sierras. Foxwell NT510 Elite Obd2 Car Code Reader Vehicle Diagnostic Scan Tool All Function Scanner for Buick/Chevrolet/Cadillac/GMC Reset with EPB SAS ABS Oil EPB. It is supposed to arrive today. October 8 2020. I can't find a wiring diagram for my vehicle, which makes it difficult to check point to point/ end to end of wires. I unplugged the computer climate control in the dash and plugged it back in again, but no change. My fear is maybe I broke a wire or connection when doing the starter or damaged the A/C system when trying to add Freon.

Please help.

Jeff
Oct 8, 2020 at 9:13 AM
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ASEMASTER6371
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Good afternoon,

I attached the wiring diagram for you to view of the compressor circuit.

Check the fuses I circled for power on both sides. It is not a visual test, it is a power test.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

Check the voltage at the low-pressure switch and high-pressure switches as well.

Let me know when you want to do some testing and I will help guide you through.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-air-conditioner-not-working-or-is-weak

Roy
Oct 8, 2020 at 10:18 AM
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There is power on both side of the fuses. 11.8 volts with the engine not running and 14.0 volts with engine running.

Low Pressure and High Pressure switches have 10.4 volts with engine not running and 12.5 volts with engine running.
Oct 10, 2020 at 1:43 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, the next step is to check the Freon pressures. Can you give me the high and low side readings of the Freon?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-air-conditioner-not-working-or-is-weak

Roy
Oct 10, 2020 at 3:42 PM
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Low side 67 psi
High side 67 psi

See attached image.
Oct 14, 2020 at 5:02 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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What is the outside temperature?

Roy
Oct 14, 2020 at 5:04 PM
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FRO250
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42 degrees Fahrenheit.
Oct 14, 2020 at 5:08 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, I posted the diagram of the relay previously. Can you verify power to the clutch relay with the key in the on position?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Roy
Oct 14, 2020 at 5:20 PM
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I failed to mention that my GMC dealer says there is 2 A/C Compressors listed for my truck and mine is the least used. GMC part # 89024907. I only mention it, because I can't the third A/C Switch in the diagram. I don't have any wires going to my A/C Compressor.

I made a Relay Buddy to make it easier to verify power to the relay.
Pin 85 has power and goes to one side of the relay coil.
pin 86 doesn't have power and goes to the other side of the relay coil. When pin 86 is grounded the relay closes and the A/C clutch is activated.
Pin 87 has power.
Pin 30 doesn't have power and goes to the A/C Clutch. When pin 30 is jumpered to positive on the battery the A/C clutch is activated.
Oct 15, 2020 at 5:31 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, pin 30 should have power all the time.

Pin 87 goes to the clutch itself.

Pin 86 is ignition power.

Pin 85 is the ground. That is controlled by the ECM based on inputs from the pressure sensors.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

When you ground 85 and the compressor runs, what happens to the pressures? Can you tell me those pressures?

Roy
Oct 16, 2020 at 1:51 AM
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It's been below freezing for the last week. When it warms up I will try. I think the A/C is disabled if it is too cold.
Oct 19, 2020 at 2:09 PM
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Okay, keep me updated with the results.

Roy
Oct 19, 2020 at 4:28 PM
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Low side was 25 PSI
High side was 140 PSI
That was after one minute.

The high and low side were both 52 PSI before the compressor was started. The outside temperature 50 degrees Fahrenheit.
Oct 27, 2020 at 5:05 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, the pressures look good when it is running.

Based on your reading both at the relay and the switches, you may have a bad ECM.

Roy
Oct 28, 2020 at 1:13 AM
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How do I test for that?
Oct 28, 2020 at 1:26 PM
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Also, when I ground Pin 86 the compressor started, but after waiting 2 minutes it still didn't blow cold air.
Oct 28, 2020 at 1:29 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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I attached a diagram of the red connector on the ECM. You need to back probe the wire I circled. There should be 12 volts there. If there is, the ECM is not grounding the relay and the compressor will not work.

Roy
Oct 28, 2020 at 1:36 PM
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I don't understand your statement. You said there should be 12 volts there, and if there is the ECM is not grounding the relay.
Oct 28, 2020 at 8:20 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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That is correct. The ground will have voltage from the clutch relay until the ECM grounds that wire. Then there will be 0 voltage and the relay will engage.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Roy
Oct 29, 2020 at 2:13 AM
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Oh, so I check this with the electrical connector still connected to the ECM. Make sense now.
Oct 29, 2020 at 6:43 AM
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It's probably me, but out information is lining up the same in your statement a copied and pasted below.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You said
Okay, pin 30 should have power all the time.

Pin 87 goes to the clutch itself.

Pin 86 is ignition power.

Pin 85 is the ground. That is controlled by the ECM based on inputs from the pressure sensors.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

When you ground 85 and the compressor runs, what happens to the pressures? Can you tell me those pressures?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I said
Pin 30 goes to AC Clutch coil and when jumpered to +12vdc the clutch pulls in and the compressor runs.
Pin 87 has +12vdc all the time
Pin 86 doesn't have power and goes to the other side of the relay coil. When pin 86 is grounded the relay closes and the A/C clutch is activated.
Pin 85 has power and goes to one side of the relay coil.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My 86 and 85 is the opposite of yours
My 30 and 87 is the opposite of yours

I have marked the Relay Pins on your diagram according to my findings. Please see attached image.
Oct 29, 2020 at 9:30 AM
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Also I can only find 2 pressure switches on my AC circuit. One on the low side of the orifice and the other on the high side of the orifice. Which high pressure switch in the diagram am I missing and where is it supposed to be?
Oct 29, 2020 at 9:34 AM
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ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, they are backwards

Pin 30 is constant voltage. It is where you have 87 marked.

Pin 87 goes to the compressor .

Pin 86 is ignition power or is where you marked 85.

Pin 85 is the ground for the control side of the relay.

Roy
Oct 29, 2020 at 9:59 AM
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I see now the relay can be installed 2 ways and it works both ways.
Oct 29, 2020 at 12:16 PM
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What about the third pressure switch I can't find?
Oct 29, 2020 at 12:16 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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I attached a picture of the switch for you to view.

Roy
Oct 29, 2020 at 12:24 PM
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I have accounted for that one. Where is the other one?
Oct 29, 2020 at 1:16 PM
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There are no other switches.

Roy
Oct 29, 2020 at 1:28 PM
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In the picture it shows 3 switches. I have only found 2 of them. I circled the 3 pressure switches. Please confirm.
Nov 2, 2020 at 8:44 AM
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ASEMASTER6371
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I see that. The only thing is that the wiring diagrams are generic for most models.

You only have 2 switches.

Roy
Nov 2, 2020 at 8:59 AM
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Okay.

I checked ECM. When I back probed pin 43 to ground the compressor relay closed and the compressor clutched pulled in. I let it run for 5 minutes at 2,500 rpm's and the temperature at the vents was 43 degrees F. But before I decide to get a ECM, I would like to test the request for AC input into the ECM. Can you tell what pin that is please.
Nov 2, 2020 at 10:34 AM
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ASEMASTER6371
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You will need an advanced scan tool to monitor that signal to be sure the switches are sending a signal.

Roy
Nov 2, 2020 at 10:42 AM
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Why can't I back probe that pin also?
Nov 2, 2020 at 11:34 AM
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ASEMASTER6371
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You cannot tell if the ECM is processing the signal by voltage. That is based on programming inside the ECM.

Roy
Nov 2, 2020 at 11:41 AM
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Okay, but I should be able to test the input some how.
Nov 2, 2020 at 1:37 PM
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ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, red connector pin 55 in the diagram I attached.

Check for power with it disconnected. You should have voltage. Then hook it back up and there should be 0 volts if the ECM grounds the signal.

Roy
Nov 2, 2020 at 1:51 PM
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I would like to check all input devices to the ECM. I reference the diagram you provided.

1. The red X is the pressure switch you said my Sierra truck doesn’t have. Have I crossed out the correct switch?

2A. The A/C request / High Pressure switch is a series grounded circuit that comes from the HVAC control module, through the High Pressure Cutout Switch, and to the ECM Red Pin 55. The switch will open if the pressure is too high. Is this correct?

2B. The A/C Low Pressure switch is a grounded circuit that grounds the ECM Red Pin (Please provide Pin ID). The switch will close when the Freon pressures is too Low. Is this correct?

3. Once the above statements 2A and 2B are proven Grounded the ECM will ground Red Pin 43 which will activate the A/C Compressor Clutch Relay coil. Is this correct?

4. The AC Relay closes providing +12 volts DC to the A/C Compressor clutch, thus engaging the compressor. Is this correct?

List of A/C devices:

-HVAC Control module (only provides a ground via through the High Pressure Cutout Switch)

-A/C High pressure cutout switch (opens when the Freon pressure is too high) circled in green

-A/C Low pressure switch(Closes when the pressure is too low) circled in Green

-A/C Relay

-A/C Compressor clutch

-TWO 10AMP fuses

-ECM

-Wires and connectors

What other devices, if any, can be the cause of the A/C relay not to close?

Thanks
Nov 3, 2020 at 10:07 AM
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2. Correct. It opens at 375 pounds.

2B. I did in the last response. Pin 55 is the ground for the low pressure switch.

3. Correct. Once the ECM sees this signal, it should ground that pin.

4. Correct again.

Your X is incorrect. That is the one you have. The other sensor is the one that does not apply.

Roy
Nov 3, 2020 at 10:14 AM
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Okay, the AC request goes to red Pin 55.

The A/C High Pressure switch goes to which Pin?
The A/C Low Pressure switch goes to which Pin?

Thanks
Nov 3, 2020 at 11:18 AM
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Low pressure switch to Pin 55.

High pressure is an external ground not controlled by the ECM. The ECM provides power to the switch as in the diagram I posted.

Roy

Nov 3, 2020 at 11:41 AM
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Okay, but when the pressure at the High Pressure switch is below 375 PSI the switch is in the closed position. I can test this by checking ground at the Pin. What is the Pin ID?

Is the AC Request a grounded input from the HVAC Control Module when A/C is requested? What is the Pin ID?

Thanks
Nov 3, 2020 at 12:19 PM