Has run alright, suddenly will crank but not start.

Tiny
FRANKE
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Any idea what ohms I might expect across the ECT connector terminals considering it goes through the PCM? I'm not trying to get rude or short with either of you, I only guess that the wire is not open from the PCM to the ECT due to the presence of the expected 5 vdc.
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 3:17 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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You are correct the 5v refrence wire is good it goes thru ect and then back thru the return wire. Depending on the resistance of the ect is how much voltage goes back down the return wire to the pcm. We know the refrence wire is good but the return doesnt look so good. You also connected the refrence to the return and what did the temp gauge read?The same as the ect when its unplugged.I have only worked for saturn repairing these cars for over 16yrs so I think I know a little something about these cars.
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 3:34 AM
Tiny
FRANKE
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I already told you that the gauge shows midrange with the connector connected to the ECT (engine hot or cold), with it not connected to the ECT, and with the terminals jumped together (shorted back to the PCM as you suggested). I am glad you were online to help me, I think I got the best possible person, and I am trying to do and answer you the best I can. Is there anything I have not done or answered you? I cannot buy an ECT sensor until tomorrow, though if jumping the terminals makes no difference. Do you suspect that replacing the ECT sensor will change anything?
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 3:43 AM
Tiny
FRANKE
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Looking at the wiring diagram in my chilton's manual, the PCM appears to be the only active component between the ECT and the temp gauge. I'm afraid the problem is in the PCM. It may have been a problem in the PCM since I bought the car, but something changed drastically yesterday. If it is not the temp circuit what else can I check?
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 3:49 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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If the sensor reads 0 ohms its bad and needs to be repalced replacing it isnt going to fix the incorrect reading back to the computer. Heres what you need to do next unplug the ect then unplug the pcm then measure the ohms reading from the ect connector terminals of the return wire not the 5v one to the return wire at the pcm connector. Let me know what your readings are.
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 3:52 AM
Tiny
FRANKE
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Might it be the Crankshaft Position Sensor? If so, where is it physically located? Is it easier to get to from the top or bottom?
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 3:52 AM
Tiny
RASMATAZ
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Maybe the temperature gauge is out of calibration-who knows
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 3:55 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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You have spark that means your crank shaft sensor is good and that would have nothing to do with the temp gauge readings. When the ect is unplugged the temp gauge defaults to just below half way on the temp gauge. Please do what I asked you to check and get back to me.
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 4:03 AM
Tiny
FRANKE
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So the gauge may be disconnected from the PCM and this may have nothing to do at all with the car not starting? I found the PCM and there are a lot of wires on three connectors. All I know is the wires from the ECTS are black and yellow. I will track them down and post my findings tomorrow. Thank you for the info about the crankshaft sensor, I am learning more by the minute. I hope to hear back from you after I post again.
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 4:30 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Your not understanding this that ect reads the temp reading for the pcm and the pcm displays the temp on the gauge. The readings of the temp gauge tips off that the pcm is not getting a reading from the ect. If you cant find the correct wires let me know and I will find you some info on them.
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Sunday, December 11th, 2011 AT 4:39 AM
Tiny
FRANKE
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I do understand that the ECT is the sensor that provides a resistance to the PCM based on the temp of the coolant in the block, then the PCM regulates the other parts accordingly and display the appropriate reading on the temp gauge. I also understand if the PCM is not getting a resistance from the ECT, it will jump to just below mid-range and sit there. I found a pin out of the PCM connectors for a 1993 Saturn, but the wire colors do not correspond, so I'm not sure the pin #'s it says go to the ECT are correct, and I'm not sure which jacks are 1, 2, and 3. There are two blue connectors side by side and then only one brown connector is used and one empty.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2011 AT 6:26 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Lets do this go to the black wire at the coolant temp sensor connector take your ohms meter at the black wire and tell me what the readings are between the black wire and chassis ground?
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Thursday, December 15th, 2011 AT 9:28 PM
Tiny
FRANKE
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It is a short. Bounes between 2 & 3 ohms.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2011 AT 9:35 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Now unplug the connectors to pcm and check it again and let me know what it reads?
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Thursday, December 15th, 2011 AT 9:41 PM
Tiny
FRANKE
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With all 3 connectors off and measuring ohms from the black wire of the ECT connector bounces all over the place. From opent to 4 meg, into the kilo range and back around. Will not sit still.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2011 AT 10:05 PM
Tiny
FRANKE
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7The wires do not line up with the 1993 PCM diagram I found. Not by color, nor by the wires being used in the connector. I'm pretty sure this car was originally a throttle body injection (vin 8) and a MFI engine (vin 7) was put in. I'm sorry I did not say that before.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2011 AT 10:12 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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A history lesson on the S model single cam engine from 1991-1994 they had throttle body injection. Then from 1995-2002 they went to multiport injection on the single cam engines. Alright with the pcm unplug measure the voltage across the coolant temp sensor between the yellow wire and black. Let me know what the readings are?
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Thursday, December 15th, 2011 AT 10:43 PM
Tiny
FRANKE
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Hi SaturnTech,
I took Christmas off of working on the car. I hope your Christmas was good. With all 3 connectors off the PCM, I measured voltage between the black & yellow wires, and from each wire to common and they were all zero. I suspect that is what they should measure with the other end disconnected. I did it with the key on and the key off with no change. I never could find the other end of the ECT wires at the PCM connectors.

FrankE.
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Thursday, December 29th, 2011 AT 6:23 PM
Tiny
FRANKE
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I can tell you for sure it was a single cam engine originally and it now has a twin cam 16 valve engine. Could a different PCM configuration cause any of these problems? I think I can get a twin cam PCM from a U-pull it yard and see if that changes anything. It may be cheaper than taking it to a shop, which I may have to do after the new year to get this running in time for school to start.
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Thursday, December 29th, 2011 AT 6:32 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Wait a minute did you just say you have a SL1 car that someone put a SL2 twin cam engine in?Because after all this talking with you you failed to mention that fact to me.
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Thursday, December 29th, 2011 AT 6:46 PM

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