Will not run under 2000 RPM's

Tiny
BEEFSTEWER
  • MEMBER
  • 1984 JEEP CJ7
  • 2.5L
  • 4 CYL
  • 4WD
  • MANUAL
  • 95,300 MILES
I have the vehicle listed above with the AMC 2.5 4 cylinder. The vehicle starts up and runs fine, but only when I hold down the accelerator and keep it above 2,000 rpm's. I have already done a complete carburetor rebuild, replaced fuel filter, new battery, coil, ICM, distributor cap and rotor, new plugs and wires. I just can't figure out what else it could be.
All my vacuum lines are plugged off save for distributor advance (new hose), choke pull off, and PCV.
This is the first vehicle I've worked on further than oil changes, but I'm an engineer by trade and I think I'm okay at figuring stuff out. I have the original feedback Carter YFA on it if that helps, and at this time I do not plan on swapping it out. This was my dad's and he bought new in 1984 and there have been no mods on it.
If anyone could help me troubleshoot this I would very much appreciate it.
Saturday, April 4th, 2020 AT 9:07 AM

13 Replies

Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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Just for goggles.

Lets fill a spray bottle a 1/4 full.

Lets start out with a "mist" to begin with.

Crank him up and see if you can nurse him along by misting down the carburetor throat.

Its a good idea to have a soaking wet towel and a fire extinguisher handy if needed!

What results did you get?

The Medic
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Saturday, April 4th, 2020 AT 12:33 PM
Tiny
BEEFSTEWER
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Thanks for the reply.

I am able to keep him running when spraying a mist down the carburetor. It does try to die as soon as that spray is used up. Doesn't seem like there is any fuel going down the venturi during this either. (Other than my spray)

Just some extra info, I also have a new OEM style fuel tank, sender and pump installed (since this seems to lend itself to being a fuel problem). The only things I haven't replaced fuel-wise are the hard lines along the frame, and the rollover valve (ports plugged off for now)

I did manage to find that by unhooking the PCV and plugging it, I am able to hold at 1500 now, but still can't go lower consistently. Going to get a new hose to route since the old one is a little old.
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Saturday, April 4th, 2020 AT 1:23 PM
Tiny
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Like the ole squirt bottle test?

Definitely sounds like a fuel or air fuel issue.

So step one,

Leave that puppy OEM!

It ran well OEM, there's not too many mods that will improve it.

The fuel system may need new parts, but don't let your friends talk you into muffing it all up with crap such as an electric pump!

The PCV needs to work as it was designed, the correct one for the engine and year. It also must be able to suck fresh air into the other valve cover hole. (Some folks use another PCV in the other hole, Bad Jeep Guy, Bad Jeep Guy!) Installing another PCV thinking it's an "Elbow" is wrong! The other one will "check", basically shutting off the fresh air before it gets into the valve cover. So either use a real open elbow or "Gut" a 2nd PCV if you want it to become an elbow.

Back to your deal.

Here's how I look at it as the feller looking over your fender.

Either you have unplugged/ unused vacuum ports/ cracked intake/ bad gasket/ or maybe something else vacuum really sucking in way too much air (brake booster/ hoses/ etc.)

Or

As bad as you may think I'm sounding, Maybe your carburetor rebuild is not correct. (Too little fuel in the idle circuit.) I'm looking for a possible fix after I get you started on this.

Do you have tuning tools? Timing light and a dwell/ tachometer/ vacuum gauge?

Has the distributor been moved or removed?

Let's begin with testing the fuel pump, All of this is good, the "Capacity Test" is going to be the easy one (only one we really need to check for now) Insure you have something a bit bigger than a quart! See my pic.

The Medic
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Saturday, April 4th, 2020 AT 5:33 PM
Tiny
BEEFSTEWER
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  • 8 POSTS
That doesn't sound that bad.

I was just beginning to think that maybe I messed something up/set something wrong (Never tuned a carburetor before).

I got the PCV hooked back up with a new hose. It still has the elbow on the one end and I've made sure the valve up front still works.

Just looking over the intake, I can see no visible cracks/holes (doesn't mean there's not any hairline I suppose, plus I couldn't see the bottom).

I have looked all over the carburetor, to find no open vacuum ports. Only things attached are choke pull off, distributor advance, PCV, and bowl vent. All of these are direct connections, going nowhere else. Only suspect area I found here was an old cap on a manifold vacuum source. One of the big ports. I plan to put a new vinyl plug on this just to rule out any leaks it may have due to age.

I suppose I can't really rule out a bad gasket. I did do the carburetor cleaner test while it was running (spraying it at all mating areas/gaskets) and I never heard any increase in rpm, but then again, I was running it at about 2,000 rpm when I did this (does it pull more or less vacuum at higher rpm's or even matter?) So I'm not sure if this even did anything.

As to everything else,

I have never removed the distributor (not experienced enough with timing to even try that without help).

Fuel pump test gave me plenty of volume when tested, but then again, I can't keep it running at low rpm. Test was done at high idle rpm (about 1800) and I got close to a quart in 30 seconds.

Just went out and got all the tools you mentioned so no problem there.

Only other thing I did was pull the low speed/idle jet in the carburetor and cleaned it to guarantee it was clear.

Unfortunately, I can't find a lot of info on this carburetor because it is a feedback YFA so there is no mixture screw on the outside. So it's very possible I have something set wrong in the low speed circuit causing this, but then again I could be totally off target here.
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 10:17 AM
Tiny
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I usually send this link when it's running.

Sorry it's not more specific towards you, I seldom see a 150, much less taking pics and such. I do get to see quite a few 134s, (Willy's 4 cylinders). When you have one, seems the rest of them within a 40 mile radius get all magnetized to each other!

Lets see if at least the carburetor part (near the end) makes anything better.

This is an old answer, back when I was a newbie, back when men were men and sheep ran scared! I keep saying that I'm going to write more generically. As it is now, it's translating my 258 over to a 304. You will have to translate it to a 150 as far as where to find the items I describe!

Any driver of a train should be able to do that. (LOL!)

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/jeep-cj7-1985-jeep-cj7-stalls-when-hot

I'm probably going to be right around here.

Better news?

The Medic
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 11:02 AM
Tiny
BEEFSTEWER
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  • 8 POSTS
Before I go mess something up (I suppose neither of us want that).

My carburetor does not have an external mixture screw. No mix screw at all that I know of.

I read somewhere that on this specific carburetor, the mix adjustment is done on the metering rod due to the feedback solenoid on the side being what adjusts the mixture (do you know if this is correct?)

I'm almost sure that this solenoid/stepper motor/bane of my existence is no longer working.

Is there a way around this? I have been researching how the idle circuit works, and my thought is that something is blocked along the line (duh). Is it possible the metering rod is too far in? Or maybe there is an actual mix screw that I'm not finding.
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 11:35 AM
Tiny
BEEFSTEWER
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Update:

Replaced gasket on mix solenoid. Was pretty old and starting to fall apart.

Sprayed carburetor cleaner in all passages I could find just to try and get them as clear as possible.

Went and checked metering rod adjustment again to ensure correct setting. I had it way lean. Set it again to spec and now he's able to idle down close to 500, but it seems to just chug there, not really running well. (Lots of smoke out of exhaust, tons of vibration through the vehicle)

Now, I'm no expert, but I'd assume this would mean it's too rich? Should I give it a half turn back where it came from?

There's no good way to adjust with Jeep on, so this may be a trial and error type of issue.
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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10 Before top dead center

and

900 RPM is the idle speed ( does sound high!)

After timing it with those specs, I personally would see if it would idle (and perform) well at 700-750 RPM like the bigger brothers.

I was/ am searching for a reasonable and earlier year (old school) YF for your 151, so far no luck. I even started looking for a comparable one.

What is the center to center spread of the carburetor to intake mounting bolts?

Info from the fat '71-'90 Chilton

Found this pic while surfing/ nice Willys/ testing fuel related stuff/ Good that they were outside!/ Bad that there was no wet towel or fire extinguisher close by.

The Medic
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 2:09 PM
Tiny
BEEFSTEWER
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Interesting things happening.

I found that after doing what I did previously, I forgot to plug back in the choke pull off.

So with no choke, and a big vacuum leak, it stumbled for idle around 500-600 rpm. As soon as I plug the choke back in, it won't idle at all. Sits at around 1000 for a while, then gives up.

I'm assuming this is the rich mixture (it's super rich now from looking at the plugs), but it's making it so I can't even check the timing.

I'm assuming I need more air in, but at the same time less fuel? (Definition of rich, I know)

Oh, and without pulling the carburetor off the intake (bigger ordeal that it should) my best measurement for mounting distance is 3".
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 3:16 PM
Tiny
BEEFSTEWER
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Update again:

Played around with mixture by setting the metering rod and finally got it to idle consistently (with the choke plugged in to boot).

Now we are averaging an idle at 1,000 rpm's, but it's an average.

It actually likes to go back and forth between 850 and 1,150.

It'll miss for a second, then it'll come right back.

I'm pretty sure I can't check the timing with it bouncing like this.

Sound like a mix problem or an ignition one?
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Sunday, April 5th, 2020 AT 4:12 PM
Tiny
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Misting out of your spray bottle will improve the lower idling if it lacks fuel.

If it's ignition there may not be any improvement, it may even get worse.

I have spent a few hours and looked at a lot of stuff, this is probably the bestus deal I came across.

I really think this would be cheap enough and easy to tune. It has a mix screw and is not "Terminator" controlled!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Reman-Carter-YF-1-Barrel-Carburetor-7467s-1977-1979-American-Motors-AMC-Jeep/184213746401?hash=item2ae3feb2e1:g:xvQAAOSwuSxeb c-

With any part ever, Never send your core back until you have put a few really good miles on it. I've seen too many somehow wild special cores not re-available after being turned in (sent in/ gone forever!). Sad thing being the new part was a flop and now you have nothing to compare to.

The Medic
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Monday, April 6th, 2020 AT 4:40 PM
Tiny
BEEFSTEWER
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  • 8 POSTS
Actually, I messed with it some more today and made some decent progress I think.

I found that there is a plug above the metering rod that can be removed, allowing me to adjust while engine is running.

I also found a write-up on how to disable all the extra emission controls, solenoid included!

I ran a couple wires from the ICM to the distributor, apparently bypassing the computers control over mix and ignition. (Likely had a lot of bad sensors anyway!)

I was able to set the mixture pretty close, and the engine ran pretty decently after this. I couldn't get it to hold right at 950, but I could get it close.

Timing at 1000ish was about 8* BTDC, but according to the write-up, I needed to reset the timing after this. I set it according to the vacuum gauge on the manifolds vac. Interestingly enough, I could only get about 12" of vacuum at 1,000 rpm's max. But if I increased from to 1500, I was pulling about 15-16".

I still think it's a little rich as it sits now, so I'm gonna do just a little here and a little there, trying to get it right, but luckily, it will idle around 950-1,000 rpm's now and I was able to move it under its own power for the first time since it was originally parked!

I'm almost sure that I have a couple vacuum leaks still. Found that the gasket between the float bowl and the air horn has a year in it (likely from my own stupidity) and the one between the carburetor and manifold is starting to separate from itself. Manifold gasket looks a little suspect, but I'm not sure on that yet.
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Monday, April 6th, 2020 AT 5:07 PM
Tiny
CJ MEDEVAC
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You are doing good!

Look for the leaks as in this link:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-an-engine-vacuum-gauge

Another way to look for them is to use your plumber torch (propane torch).

Do not light it at all!

All you want to do is turn it on and use the gas coming out of the nozzle to wave it around the suspect places. With it being a "fuel" the engine will rev a bit higher if you find one.

Sometimes I use cardboard around the carburetor area to "dam" away the wind from the fan so it don't blow my gas all away.

Watch out for them pesky moving parts!

One thing I like about this method is if a fire wants to start it is mostly at the torch's nozzle.

Spray stuff burns until the liquid is gone on the parts it was shot onto, or it continues to spread on anything else that will ignite!

Now that your idle has settled (some anyway), See if your timing is right, or needs a little tweaking.

New results?

The Medic

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Tuesday, April 7th, 2020 AT 6:18 PM

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