'85 CJ7 - Need help w/ Electrical, Not Starting (caused by me removing PO-installed alarm behind dash)

CJ7_NEWYORK

MEMBER
1985 JEEP CJ7
157,000 MILES

Recently had the CJ painted, which got me inspired to clean up inside the tub too. Have always been bothered by a bunch of wires hanging down behind the dash. Sometimes would get my feet tangled. I took off the dash and the steering wheel and poked around. There was a PO-installed alarm that wasn't working and and old CB hookup. I removed both, trying to be careful. After reattaching all the dash gauges, the car won't start. When I first reattached the instrument cluster there appeared to be some white smoke behind the bulbs. Couldn't figure out where it came from exactly and went to bed. In morning, found that battery was dead and had it charged at local gas station. Some things I noticed: When lights are in the off position, hazards work fine and left and right signal arrows blink properly through the speedo. Once the parking lights or the headlights are turned on, the signals on the front of the car no longer flash, they stay solidly on. When I turn the ignition, I head a faint click somewhere behind the steering column, but there is no turnover or anything. I thought maybe I had drained my battery again or something (even though this is a new battery as of this year) so I had a friend come and jump the car. The voltmeter read 12.5 or so when we were hooked up but again, the car didn't even try to turn over. Now when I turn the ignition, the voltmeter reads about 10.5 and the oil gauge moves the tiniest bit. Nothing else happens except for the light clicking sound.

I've been trying to check the grounds, but haven't tinkered much by the engine. A lot of forums I am visiting have a lot of instructions about checking the solenoid and the starter, etc. I figure I must have done something wrong behind my dash and so am wary of messing around with yet another part of the Jeep unnecessarily.

But tomorrow I'm going to get a voltmeter etc first thing and just start testing anything I can test.

Any thoughts would be so great!

- Alix

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 6:03 AM

31 Replies

CJ MEDEVAC

MECHANIC
11,004 POSTS

YOU'RE KILLING ME!!!

IS ALL OF THE EMISSIONS STUFF STILL HOOKED UP AND WORKING?

THE SMOKE REALLY CONCERNS ME....WAS IT INSIDE THE CLUSTER?

DO YOU HAVE THE DASH SNATCHED OUT NOW????

WIRING IS A NIGHTMARE EVEN WHEN I HAVE "HANDS ON"

I RECKON I'LL TRY TO HELP YOU!!!....I DO IT FOR EVERY CJ GUY THAT COMES ABOARD.....IF I CAN, AND IF THEY'LL PAY ATTENTION ! EXAMPLE IN THIS LINK....18 YEARS OLD AND A REAL TROOPER!

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/1982-jeep-cj7-ignition-problem-spark-distributor-cap

THE BIGGEST FACTOR:

DO YOU REALLY LOVE YOUR JEEP?

THE MEDIC

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 6:16 AM

CJ MEDEVAC

MECHANIC
11,004 POSTS

I ALSO WANT YOU TO PULL EVERY FUSE MAKE A NOTE OF ANY BLOWN FUSES AND WHICH CIRCUITS THEY ARE ON---AT THIS TIME DO NOT REPLACE THEM WITH NEW ONES

THE MEDIC

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 6:19 AM

CJ7_NEWYORK

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20 POSTS

I L-O-V-E my Jeep. About to give you way too much info that's not relevant to the question so skip to the bottom if you are in a hurry. I've had it for over a decade. Used to live in Denver but when I moved to NY I had to leave it in a friend's garage. Two years ago I finally got the money to get it shipped to me. One NY winter later, the tub had rusted in spots and it spent months at the shop getting a fresh bottom put on. Then from Jan-March of this year it was at the shop getting a new paint job (matte black). Love and more love is all the CJ has been getting. But when I got our old gal back, the shop said the starter was blown along with the left turn signal and the wiper motor. And they even managed to break the seat belt. All of it was working when I brought her in. I got the parts in last week but they said they wouldn't have time to do anything for another two weeks. My eagerness to have working wipers, my lack of confidence in my local shop, and my false sense of confidence gained from reading too many Jeep Forum posts is what got me into this mess.

And to answer your other questions:
The dash is out now. It's hard for me to tell what is working aside from the lights because I can't get her to start.

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 6:27 AM

CJ7_NEWYORK

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And yes the smoke was from inside the cluster, I believe.

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 6:27 AM

CJ7_NEWYORK

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I'm going to head over to read that link you sent me. But I have already read a few of your other CJ answer threads and I want you to know that they are what got me to join this site and donate money. I can't tell you how lucky I feel to have you on my side in this. I promise to post pictures if necessary and to be as good in the eyes and ears department as I can to make up for the lack of hands-on. Just point the way, boss.

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 6:30 AM

CJ7_NEWYORK

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Oh that's right I forgot to mention the fuses! The 10A ACC and the 3A ACC LPS were both blown. I can't say for how long. Here's a photo of my fuse box. The green wire by the Fan HTR was attached to heated seats and I have since unplugged it.

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 6:39 AM

CJ7_NEWYORK

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Just reading your other link. Going to get some dielectric grease in the morning along with a voltmeter. My Jeep just passed safety in NY and won't have to pass emissions for another year or so. And it's 4 speed manual transmission and an AMC I4.

Here are some pictures:
1) A picture of her with her new paint.
2) Some pictures of the dash wiring as it stands now. It was a hope of mine that I could get under there, clean everything up and have the electricals looking shiny and new. I removed the old moldy glovebox (made of cardboard?) And replaced all the old cloth tape. Was looking almost smooth-sailing for a second there.
3) Last is the engine compartment. The solenoid, alternator, and starter were all replaced in the last 6 months. I'm sorry the pictures are a little dark. I can take better pictures tomorrow during the day.

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 7:42 AM

CJ MEDEVAC

MECHANIC
11,004 POSTS

POST A PIC OF THE ALARM---OR AT LEAST THE NAME AND MODEL #

MAYBE I CAN GET ONLINE AND FIND OUT WHAT IT HOOKED TO, AND MAYBE IT WAS CONNECTED UP AS TO "DISABLE" YOUR JEEP. WE MAY JUST NEED TO FIND WHAT NEEDS TO BE TIED BACK TOGETHER

THANKS FOR THE CONFIDENCE IN MY "NOT SO WELL PLANNED OUT"--"RUNNING ON AND ON SENTENCES"---"MEGA LACK OF PROPER PUNCTUATION"---"USE OF CAPS FULL TIME" (I THINK IT MAKES STUFF EZer TO READ, I WAS TOLD IT MAKE ME LOOK LIKE IMMA HOLLERIN' ALL OF THE TIME")WHAT. ARE YE DEAF?. WHILE EXPLAINING TO OTHERS IN THAT SIGNATURE "CJ MEDEVAC WAY"

WIFEY GOT ME RUNNING WILD RIGHT NOW--I WILL POST AGAIN AS SOON AS I CAN, WITH MORE INFO

THE MEDIC

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 5:42 PM

CJ7_NEWYORK

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I discarded the old alarm before I realized there was a problem (stupid). No pictures will be coming on that one. Voltmeter on the battery reads 0.55 so I'm going to pick up a new one. Going to give it one more go with a new battery and then if it doesn't start will test the solenoid, etc. Will report back.

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 7:12 PM

CJ MEDEVAC

MECHANIC
11,004 POSTS

YOU WILL BE A MOST CHALLENGING POST!

IF THE SMOKE WAS INSIDE THE CLUSTER---MOST LIKELY YOU "FRIED" THE "CVR" INSIDE THE FUEL GAUGE. THIS THING WORKS SORTA LIKE A TRANSFORMER TO REDUCE THE VOLTAGE TO ABOUT 5-1/2 VOLTS TO OPERATE THE FUEL GAUGE AND TEMPERATURE GAUGE

WORST CASES ARE: NEITHER WILL WORK. OR NOT CORRECTLY. OR MAYBE THEY SURVIVED. THIS IS AROUND A $40 FIX, THE GAUGES SHOULD BE REPLACED AS A SET. THIS AIN'T REAL HARD TO DO, TAKING THE SPEEDO OUT OF AN "INSTALLED DASH" IS THE KILLER (YOURS IS OUT, AND EZ TO ACCESS)

IF YOU "POWERED UP" WITH THE DASH OUT, YOU MORE THAN LIKELY MADE THE GAUGE (WHOLE DASH) LOSE IT'S GROUND. THAT'LL DO IT!

OK---HERE'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO FOR NOW. WE'LL TACKLE THE SPEEDO AFTER WE GET HIM RUNNING!

I WANT YOU TO INSTALL 2 GROUNDS (ONE IS YOUR BACKUP, WHEN YOU ACCIDENTALLY SNATCH THE OTHER LOOSE)

LETS PUT STAKE-ON RINGS ON BOTH ENDS OF 2 WIRES ABOUT 2 FEET LONG

LETS INSTALL THESE TEMPORARY GROUNDS. OUT OF THE WAY. REMOVE SCREWS AND PUT THE RINGS UNDER THEM AND TIGHTEN. ON THE DASH, AND ON THE BODY/ COWL/ FLOOR.A GOOD GROUND!

I FOUND THAT ALLIGATOR CLIPS WORK JUST FINE. TILL YOU ACCIDENTALLY KNOCK 'EM LOOSE.I FRIED MINE ONCE, SPEEDO IN MY HAND (TESTING BEFORE RE-INSTALL) THE OLE ALLIGATOR CLIP (TEMP GROUND WIRE) JUMPED OFF WITH MY KEY ON.I SEEN THE EVIL SMOKE TOO!

THIS SET BACK. DOES NOT KEEP THE JEEP FROM RUNNING. WE'LL DO IT LATER!

ANY CLUE ABOUT THE NAME OF THE ALARM. WILL A WEB SEARCH MAYBE LET YOU RECOGNIZE IT?

DO YOU HAVE A MANUAL?

PRESENTLY BREAKING FROM THE WIFEY'S FESTIVITIES---I MUST GO BACK NOW. ABOUT 20 BODIES IN MY HOUSE NOW

(YOU WILL GET TIRED OF ME!)

THE MEDIC

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 8:32 PM

CJ7_NEWYORK

MEMBER
20 POSTS

I've got the dash grounded to the tub twice as you said. New battery reads 12.65V but still doesn't attempt to start. Oh well. I'm familiar with the speedo replacement. I actually JUST replaced the speedo with A used one last week because my old one jumped around wildly. But my fuel gauge worked and the one from the "new" cluster didn't so I swapped it out. Won't be the end of the world to have to do it again. I just picked up a Haynes manual and a really great crimper. I'm ready to rock and roll. What's next?

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 11:01 PM

CJ7_NEWYORK

MEMBER
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Absolutely no clue about the alarm. None. I read the label once and then it slipped from my brain forever.

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 11:02 PM

CJ MEDEVAC

MECHANIC
11,004 POSTS

WANNA WAIT TO SEE HOW THEY WORK WHEN WE GET IT GOING?

THIS INFO WILL BE HERE A LONG TIME, SO YOU CAN GET BACK TO IT. IF NEED-BE!

I WAS GONNA THROW YOU A PIC OR TWO OF ME PUTTING THEM IN MY SPEEDO---I CAN'T SEEM TO LOCATE THEM

WE MAY BE ABLE TO TEST 'EM TOO---I HAVE THE INFO TO DO SO

THE MEDIC

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Monday, May 28th, 2012 AT 11:51 PM

CJ7_NEWYORK

MEMBER
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I have a hookup in RI for used Jeep parts, I'll shoot him an email. I might be able to get a set for cheaper. But I drove without a working speedo for a long time, so I can wait to tackle that later as you said. Let's get this baby RUNNING first. None of those alarms look familiar to me, unfortunately. I think we might have to go the hard way. Here's a pic of my new temp grounds.

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Tuesday, May 29th, 2012 AT 12:13 AM

CJ7_NEWYORK

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20 POSTS

Here are some pics of the engine wiring and the temporary grounds.

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Tuesday, May 29th, 2012 AT 12:47 AM

CJ7_NEWYORK

MEMBER
20 POSTS

Just a thought. My PIAA lights are not currently attached. Is it a problem for them to still be attached to the solenoid?

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Tuesday, May 29th, 2012 AT 12:49 AM

CJ7_NEWYORK

MEMBER
20 POSTS

I looked at a bunch of car alarm pictures and none of them ring a bell. The previous owner passed so the manuals and the knowledge of which alarm was installed is forever gone. I hope you had a very happy memorial day weekend. Thank you for taking some moments away from your own party to respond earlier.

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Tuesday, May 29th, 2012 AT 1:00 AM

CJ MEDEVAC

MECHANIC
11,004 POSTS

SORRY--I DON'T SEE YOUR TEMP GROUNDS

AS LONG AS YOU ARE GROUNDING THE LOOSE DASH TO THE BODY (OR BACK THRU IT, EVENTUALLY WINDING UP AT "NEGATIVE BATTERY" WE SHOULD BE GOOD!)

LOOKING AT YOUR PIC---AND ME BEING A CRITICAL KINDA GUY---I DO NOT LIKE ALL OF THE TAPE ON YOUR BATTERY CABLES. KINDA SAYS SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE INSULATION---MAYBE COVERING UP POWDERY CORROSION IN THE WIRE STRANDS. SOME NEW ONES WOULD BE NICE. RED FOR POSITIVE, BLACK FOR NEGATIVE

I'M ALSO GONNA HAVE YOU CHANGE THE SOLENOID WIRING A LITTLE---THIS WILL MAKE IT ALOT EZer TO "JUMP THE SOLENOID" FOR CRANKING OR BUMPING UNDER THE HOOD

1ST PIC--STUFF THAT WILL MESS YOU UP

2ND PIC--WIRE YOUR SOLENOID LIKE THIS (SWAP THE BIG CABLES, "S" AND "I" SHOULD REMAIN AS THEY ARE (IF THEY WERE ALREADY RIGHT) ALL ACCESSORY WIRES STAY BUTTED AGAINST THE POSITIVE BATTERY CABLE

AFTER YOU GET SOLENOID AS I HAVE SHOWN---"S" AND POS BATTERY CABLE WILL BE SIDE BY SIDE

BATTERY MUST BE GOOD---OR YOU ARE JUMP STARTING

AS IN PIC 3, USING A SCREWDRIVER OR A REMOTE STARTER CONNECT POS POST TO "S". IT'S GONNA JUMP, YOU MAY BECOME INCONTINENT! JUST DON'T JUMP INTO THE FAN OR BELTS. IF THIS TURNS THE ENGINE OVER WE KNOW THE UNDER HOOD STARTING CIRCUIT IS FINE (WE MAY HAVE TO TRACE "S" WIRE, OR OTHER STUFF, BACK IF THE KEY STILL DOES NOT WORK).

. JUST A TEST, IF IT MOVES, TURN THE KEY "ON" AND TRY IT AGAIN. DOES IT START?

DON'T GO CRAZYWE MAY NOT HAVE IGNITION---TEST THIS, IN PIC 4 (YOUR VALUE MAY DIFFER THAN MINE)

ALRIGHT GET TO WORK---THE NEW BATTERY CABLES CAN "SLIDE" TILL YOU GET SOME $$$

REPORT BACK---I'M ABOUT TO START MAKING SOME MORE DIAGRAMS FOR CHECKING AND TRACING WIRES---DEPENDENT ON YOUR RESULTS

ARE WE "JIVIN'" OR ARE YOU LOST?

THE MEDIC

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Tuesday, May 29th, 2012 AT 1:50 AM

CJ MEDEVAC

MECHANIC
11,004 POSTS

I TYPE SLOW--- I LEAVE THOUGHTS OUT

WHEN DOING MY TESTS---MAKE SURE YOUR JEEP IS OUT OF GEAR---WHEELS CHOCKED--EMERGENCY BRAKE ON!

THE MEDIC

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Tuesday, May 29th, 2012 AT 1:55 AM

CJ MEDEVAC

MECHANIC
11,004 POSTS

I JUST PICKED UP ON YOUR PICS

BATTERY NEGATIVE SHOULD BOLT TO THE PASSENGER SIDE OF THE ENGINE BLOCK! MINE IS ON THE SIDE ABOUT MIDWAY.

BATTERY POSITIVE GOES TO SOLENOID ALL ACCESSORIES WILL STACK AGAINST IT, PROVIDING THEM WITH POWER (AS I SHOW YOU IN MY PIC!)

THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SOLENOID SHOULD GO TO THE STARTER (BY ITSELF NO OTHER WIRES OR CABLES)

WE SEEM TO BE ANSWERING OUT OF SYNC TO EACH OTHER!---I AM SLOW, AND I AM MAKING A LOT OF THIS STUFF IN "MICROSOFT PAINT" AS I GO---SLOWING ME DOWN EVEN MORE. BEAR WITH ME.I DON'T WANNA STEER YOU WRONG!

I FORGOT TO MENTION. WE DO APPRECIATE YOUR DONATIONS, I PERSONALLY APPRECIATE YOUR CONFIDENCE IN ME.I'M MORE OF A "HANDS ON" TEACHER TYPE, AND IMMA "SKILLED" DIYer FROM WAY BACK WITH MY OWN JEEPS, THIS COMPUTER STUFF IS REALLY ONLY THREE YEARS OLD---TO A 48 YEAR OLD FELLER.

I TRY TO MAKE HANDS ON LEARNING FUN AND RE-MEMORABLE ---ITS HARD TO TRANSLATE ALL OF THAT INTO TEXT!

THE MEDIC

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Tuesday, May 29th, 2012 AT 2:15 AM