Engine will not start?

Tiny
BCHAILLE
  • MEMBER
  • 1996 BUICK LESABRE
  • 3.8L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 138,500 MILES
My car listed above Limited with the 3800 engine has had an on going but periodic engine misfire problem. Above an outside temperature of 60 it runs great, between 60 and 50 it starts rough (really rough) then runs fine (without a misfire) after the engine warms up. Below 50 it won't start at all. Between myself, my buddy the mechanic and a couple other shops in town we've replaced the following: plugs, wires, ignition coils, ignition module (I think, but the replaced ignition module is too hot to touch after just a few minutes running), fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel lines to the firewall, fuel pressure regulator, crank position sensor, intake air temperature sensor and we've cleaned the EGR valve with Seafoam, got the valve moving pretty well, but we might be able to do a more thorough job. It did seem to start at a bit lower temperature after cleaning the EGR valve.
I borrowed my buddy's Matco diagnostic computer, and got some data the day after, old codes for EGR, crank and cam position sensors, and knock. I watched the data feed, but don't really know what to look for. The EGR position was better than 90% correct but it was running well then. It's been too cold to get the car started lately maybe this weekend! So where do I look next? Clean the EGR again, or replace it? If a brand new ignition module is suspect, what might be causing it to run hot (if that's not normal)? Both are $150.00 parts. Cam shaft position sensor? I'd appreciate knowing your rational. How is your diagnosed problem affected by temperature? Thanks!
Thursday, October 24th, 2019 AT 8:28 PM

15 Replies

Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello,

The EGR Valve would cause a vacuum leak if the valve was stuck open and cause a rough idle, but it would also cause low speed driveability concerns, and I don't think it is your problem. Believe it or not, your vehicle's Engine Coolant Temperature [ECT] Sensor can cause erratic idle and driveability concerns. However, the one sensor that you guys failed to replace is the Camshaft Position Sensor [CMP] which the Power-train Control Module [PCM], or "computer" uses to synchronize the fuel injectors so it can fire them when they need to be fired. Without this signal your vehicle will not start. In the diagrams down below I have included a description of the operation and location of the CMP. Here is a generic guide on how to replace one, if needed, below:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/camshaft-angle-sensor-replacement

Please go through these guides and get back to us with how everything turns out.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Friday, October 25th, 2019 AT 3:22 AM
Tiny
BCHAILLE
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Thanks for the timely response and good information! I ordered the cam shaft position sensor and engine coolant sensor. We'll replace the cam sensor first and try it, but I don't really get how that by itself would be so temperature dependent but it does make sense as a failure point. I'll let you know what we find out. Thanks.
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Monday, October 28th, 2019 AT 7:54 AM
Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello again,

I'm sorry if I got that reply a little mixed up. I was trying to say that the CMP is used by the PCM to synchronize and signal the fuel injectors when to fire. The ECT is used in the formula by the PCM as to how long to hold open the fuel injectors which is how the PCM makes the Air:Fuel mixture either rich or lean. The PCM also will retard the ignition timing if the temperature reading it get's from the ECT is hot to keep the engine away from detonation, or "knock", which is the pre detonation of the air:fuel mixture without the spark plug igniting it. This usually happens when the piston is still traveling upward on the compression stroke, and can have catastrophic effects on your engine's internal parts. Please get back to us with how everything turns out.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Tuesday, October 29th, 2019 AT 12:41 AM
Tiny
BCHAILLE
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Hey Alex, I finally finished the CMP replacement. Pulling the power steering pulley was the key. It's in a really tight spot and mainly blind. But there was no change in the result after replacing the CMP, crank no start at 38 degrees F. I guess I'll try the ECT next. Got any tips for me? It may be harder to get to than the CMP! I have 1996 Buick Lesabre Park Avenue 88 98 Bonneville Shop Service Repair Manual CD coming next week hopefully that helps.
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Monday, November 11th, 2019 AT 4:35 PM
Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello again,

Okay, so let's go ahead and replace the other sensor used for ignition timing synchronization, the Crankshaft Position Sensor[CKP]. In the diagrams down below I have included a description and the instructions for the removal and installation of the CKP on your vehicle from the vehicle manufacturer. Please go through these guides and get back to us with what you are able to find out.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Monday, November 11th, 2019 AT 5:14 PM
Tiny
BCHAILLE
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Crank Shaft Position has been replaced. I attempted to continuity test the wiring harnesses from the CMP too. I’m not sure that I did it right. My simple test light attached to ground lit up on all thee contacts. Seems like continuity to me. I inspected the harness a little. Don’t see anything obvious. I have a basic digital volt meter too if I need to test more. It was 9 degrees this morning, so I’ll wait for a bit warmer weather too. Maybe this weekend.
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Tuesday, November 12th, 2019 AT 6:33 AM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,526 POSTS
Hello,

If I can jump in here is sounds like to me the engine coolant temperature sensor needs to be replaced. Here is a guide to walk you through the repair with instructions in the diagrams below to show you how on your car:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/coolant-temperature-sensor-cts-replacement

Check out the diagrams (below). Please let us know what you find. We are interested to see what it is.
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Thursday, November 14th, 2019 AT 11:13 AM
Tiny
BCHAILLE
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Yes, I thought that made sense too! I just replaced the engine coolant sensor (surprisingly easy). Still no start, no change in symptoms. I don't have a next step at the moment, besides making room for the car in the garage and warming it up to 55 to 60 degrees F and seeing if it will start again so I can get some more diagnostic data.
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Sunday, November 17th, 2019 AT 1:35 PM
Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello again,

Okay, Have you inspected the ECT electrical connector and the wires for problems? In the diagrams down below I have included the wiring diagram for the ECT and a guide for finding intermittent and poor electrical connectors and for finding unwanted resistance in an automotive electrical circuit using the voltage drop method. Please go through these guides and get back to us with what you find out.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Sunday, November 17th, 2019 AT 4:47 PM
Tiny
BCHAILLE
  • MEMBER
  • 6 POSTS
Hey guys, just want to tie a bow on this one. I never got though diagnosing the engine harness. Here's what actually happened: I towed the car to my regular mechanic and got it fixed. The replacement crankshaft sensor was not shimmed correctly. This allowed the crankshaft pulley tone ring tabs to strike the sensor, eventually breaking it (and bending tabs). So even though the crankshaft sensor was replaced the "non start" was still due to the new broken crankshaft sensor. My mechanic replaced the damaged sensor and bent the tone ring tabs back into place. It's been running fine for a few weeks now.
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Wednesday, February 12th, 2020 AT 4:05 PM
Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,526 POSTS
Thanks for getting back to us on this one. Nice work, we are here to help, please use 2CarPros anytime.
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Thursday, February 13th, 2020 AT 9:54 AM
Tiny
COAKS88
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 1996 BUICK LESABRE
Electrical problem
1996 Buick Lesabre 6 cyl Front Wheel Drive Automatic

Odd problem with car. No rhyme or reason. Car might start and drive fine and then 10 miles down the road, just stall. It will usually restart 10-20 mins. Later. Sometimes it won't though. The weird thing is that when this happens the power windows and seats will not work but everything else does (lights, radio, heater). I know if the car will start just by trying the windows. It is not an overheating issue either. Sometimes it will not start after sitting all night. But will start right up after 15 mins.

Rollsover but will not start. I have had it to the mechanic several times and he can't figure it out. Any ideas?
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 4:15 PM (Merged)
Tiny
MICKEY-D
  • MECHANIC
  • 304 POSTS
Try checking the connection on the harness that come through the firewall. The plug in ends can corrode causing loss of voltage at times. Also, check all of the under hood fuses for corrosion and/or poor contacts. Hope this info helps. Mickey-d
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 4:15 PM (Merged)
Tiny
2CP-ARCHIVES
  • MEMBER
  • 4,540 POSTS
  • 1996 BUICK LESABRE
  • 124,000 MILES
Starts in afternoon. Will not start in cold mornings, no spark
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 4:17 PM (Merged)
Tiny
JDL
  • MECHANIC
  • 16,098 POSTS
How long since a tune-up? Any applicable trouble codes? When problem is ongoing, check voltage and ground at ignition module, key on. Check the crank sensor, when problem is ongoing.
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Tuesday, August 4th, 2020 AT 4:17 PM (Merged)

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