Random misfiring after replacing injector and removing others

Tiny
NIKKIDODGEIN
  • MEMBER
  • 2008 DODGE AVENGER
  • 2.7L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 206,000 MILES
Hi there, I’ve been trying to fix the misfiring going on with my car listed above. In the beginning I had misfires and open circuit on 5 and 6 code for torch converter, random misfire but when resetting, 6 didn’t always come back. I’ve had it throw all sorts of codes at me in the process troubleshooting down the line. So far I’ve replaced the PCV valve and hose, all spark plugs, all boots, and injector 5. In the process I did also switch injectors 2 and 6 to see if the codes moved but they didn’t so I put those back. After doing all this the car was running great for a day and check engine light actually went off but then day 2 it started misfiring again. It’s now got a bunch different codes. Random misfiring, misfire and open circuit on 2, 4, and 6, and torch converter. Injectors 1, 3, and 5 are under manifold but I tested ohms on 2, 4, and 6 injectors and 4 and 6 were 14.2 but I couldn’t get a good reading on 2 because it was bouncing around and jumping up past 16. I felt like that injector on 2 was really loud too and I could touch the rail and really feel that thing kicking harder then the others.

What would you do next? Any help is so so greatly appreciated! I am new to all this so I know I’ve made things harder on myself then necessary due to the lack of experience. I’m hoping I can get some direction on what to do next so I don’t take the long drawn out route like I have been. I’m in dire need of figuring this out because I’m missing work for over a week now. Help!
Sunday, December 29th, 2019 AT 10:34 PM

23 Replies

Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello,

This could be a problem with an intermittent problem in the wiring going to the fuel injectors or the ignition Coil on Plugs[COP][s].. In the diagrams down below I have included the power-train management wiring diagrams with the fuel injector and the COP circuits included in them, and guides for how to find and fix as well as induce intermittent conditions in an automotive electrical circuit for you. You will need to use a Digital Multi-meter [DMM] to go through these guides, so here is a link down below explaining how to use a DMM, if needed:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

Please go through these guides and get back to us with what you are able to find out.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Sunday, December 29th, 2019 AT 11:03 PM
Tiny
NIKKIDODGEIN
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
Thank you so much! I am going to be working on this today and tomorrow and will let you know how it goes for sure. I did find that on cylinder 6 the boot and spring just put on was somehow twisted and bent and in turn tore the to of the boot that holds the spring. That is the only thing I allowed someone to help with so going to check the other 3 under the manifold today to make sure those are okay as well. Going to also check spark from coil with a light tester, check all the wiring, mass air flow sensor, etc. Fingers crossed, I’ve got 2 days until I have to be back to work so definitely appreciate the help!
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Tuesday, December 31st, 2019 AT 12:58 PM
Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello,

Sounds good. I was also having problem like this with my vehicle, a 1997 Ford Mustang GT [Supercharged] the other day, and was focusing on splices I did to put a new electrical connector on for the #8 cylinder fuel injector. Turns out that the insulation of the bottom of the spark plug had broken completely in half so you could flip the spark plug over and the insulation would follow, it wasn't a solid piece anymore. Why? Who knows. I got a new spark plug[older one I had lying around], gapped it, and installed it. Car ran like a champ. Point being, you just never know until you check, eventually you will get to the broken part, even if it doesn't seem like that would be the broken part.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Tuesday, December 31st, 2019 AT 3:31 PM
Tiny
NIKKIDODGEIN
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
So true! Here’s what I found so far. First pic is bottom of coil, 2nd and 3rd are the brand new boot and spring. They’re burnt a little. What does that mean? Lol! Bad coil? Carbon build up? The spring is a little ashy. This is cylinder 5 which is the code that’s hung in there when I’ve gotten cylinders 2 and 4 misfire to clear a couple times which leads me to think they may be a by-product of cylinder 5 issue. It did look like the top of the boot was bugged in which doesn’t surprise me after finding that other spring bent. Not sure if that itself could cause this. Due to time constraints and not wanting to take the manifold off again I’m wondering what the chances of this being the problem is and maybe I’ll just replace the boot to be thorough the first time. Not sure though, what do you think?
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Wednesday, January 1st, 2020 AT 10:51 AM
Tiny
NIKKIDODGEIN
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
Okay, upon closer inspection I found a crack in the boot. So I definitely need a new boot. You could actually see it in the first picture of the boot. I can’t believe I didn’t notice it lol!
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Wednesday, January 1st, 2020 AT 11:33 AM
Tiny
SCGRANTURISMO
  • MECHANIC
  • 4,897 POSTS
Hello again,

Yep, that will do it every time.

Thanks,
Alex
2CarPros
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Wednesday, January 1st, 2020 AT 12:09 PM
Tiny
NIKKIDODGEIN
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
I really appreciate all your help! You have no idea! Happy New Year!
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Wednesday, January 1st, 2020 AT 12:43 PM
Tiny
LANC320
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
  • 2008 DODGE AVENGER
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 49,000 MILES
My 08 Avenger 3.5L V6 just started "chugging" when in 5th or 6th gear, under load, at between 1700 and 2000 rpm. Above and below that it is smooth. In park, I hear somewhat of a knocking noise at about the same rpm range. The noise seems to be coming from the top middle of the engine. It otherwise seems to run fine. Any ideas?
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,380 POSTS
There are a few possibilities;
There is an Electronic Load Sensor, (ELS), that will have varying affects depending on situation
Sometimes there is a fuel system management issue. Check for trouble codes with an OBD II sensor. Some posssiblilites there may be;
Speed sensore, O2 sensor, EGR or Mass air flow sensors.

Let me know if this helps.
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LANC320
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Thanks, DrCranknWrench. No trouble codes--used the ignition on-off 3 time--only those from when I had the front plug coils disconnected. I just ran it again in the garage. The knocking seems to be coming from the aft center or aft right (passenger side) cylinder. I revved the engine up to about 3000 rpm and the knocking gets a little louder, but then I saw a new characteristic. As I held the pedal fixed, the rpm dropped to 2000. I could push the pedal to the floor and it wouldn't go above 2000. If I let up, I could accelerate the engine above 2000 again. Also, I could not find any info in my electronic manuals on the ELS. Could this be the absolute MAP sensor?
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
DRCRANKNWRENCH
  • MECHANIC
  • 3,380 POSTS
I don't have a manual on your car either. The ELS system may be part of an integrated unit. Either it has a MAP or a MAIF air flow sensing sytem.
Faults on these generally show on trouble codes.
I am wondering if there is a spark issue such as a bad coil pack or wire, etc.
I will get back with some more info ASAP.
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LANC320
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Thanks. I was thinking spark plug or injector on the aft right or aft center cylinder, but of course, access to the back bank requires removing the upper intake manifold. Hopefully, it's something "easy" like that rather than a collapsed lifter.
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LANC320
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Last night I swapped the front and back spark plugs and coils. I did not notice an appreciable difference. Still getting the knocking noise. I did not take it out on the road, but this weekend I plan to put some B-12 into the gas tank and see if that helps. Could be a bad fuel issue. What do you think?
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
If it is a knocking noise that is consistent with engine speed, it most likely is a fault with the lifters. I am away from home and will be back tomorrow where I would be able to access our database to get more information for you.

Just hang on till then.

Symptoms does not indicate it is a fuel issue. Have the compression checked/tested idf possible.
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LANC320
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Thanks KHLow2008. I just got back from putting the B-12 and 89 octane in the tank. Drove for about 15 miles with no appreciable change. The knocking noise is consistent with engine speed and is loudest when under load and accelerating. It goes away at higher (above about 2500) rpms. Would an exhaust leak be possible?
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
Exhaust leak would be different, it would not sound like a knocking noise, more like a roaring kind of noise.

The symptoms do indicate a possible fault with the hydraulic valve lifters.

As to the hesitation and no response from the throttle pedal, it seems to be a fault with the EGR and/or O2 sensor. Have those checked.
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LANC320
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Thanks. I was reading on one of the forums about TSBs for wrist pins and for rocker arms, but was unable to find any. I looked through several TSB lists to no avail. Do you know of any?
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
KHLOW2008
  • MECHANIC
  • 41,814 POSTS
I could not find any TSB from our database regarding rocker arms etc for your engine.
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
LANC320
  • MEMBER
  • 7 POSTS
Thanks!
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:03 PM (Merged)
Tiny
XOMA
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 1996 DODGE AVENGER
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 130,000 MILES
I have 1996 Dodge Avenger(w/ manual transmission) with 130K on it, a week ago it started jerking at exactly 2500 rpm. The car starts and runs on idle perfectly, once you start driving (in any gear) it starts jerking like it's running out of fuel. We've replaced fuel filter, plugs, plug wires and the problem never went away. Need some help please.
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Friday, January 3rd, 2020 AT 3:04 PM (Merged)

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