No fire and only hot at fuel pump when cranking

Tiny
ALLEN.M
  • MEMBER
  • 2001 TOYOTA CAMRY
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 150,000 MILES
Car was working fine. Then just shut off. Only have power at fuel pump when I turn key to start. I have no power to plugs either. New brain. New relay to EFI and main. Motor spins normal but will not start. Any ideas of where to look next
Monday, November 27th, 2017 AT 4:03 PM

4 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,864 POSTS
You are finding proper operation of the fuel pump. It had better not have twelve volts when the engine is not rotating as that could create a major fire hazard. If a fuel line is ruptured in a crash, raw gas would be dumped on the ground creating that fire hazard. The engine will stall with no fuel pressure, then the engine computer turns the fuel pump off.

Approach this the same way you would diagnose a crank/no-start on any other car. Read the diagnostic fault codes to see if there is one related to the cam or crank sensor. If there is not one, keep in mind they often do not set just from cranking the engine. Often they will only set while a stalled engine is coasting to a stop. If that is the case, use your scanner to view live data and see whether those two sensors are listed as their signals are showing up during cranking. If only one signal is missing, that sensor is the best suspect. If both signals are missing, a broken wire or corroded connector terminal is the better suspect. On most engines, the 5.0-volt feed and ground wires are common to both sensors.
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Monday, November 27th, 2017 AT 4:23 PM
Tiny
ALLEN.M
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  • 3 POSTS
Plugged in computer already and no codes. Any idea of where the open circuit relay is located? Also, is it possible to be in ignition switch?
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Monday, November 27th, 2017 AT 5:14 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,864 POSTS
I am more familiar with Chrysler products, but my DRB3 scanner works on all brands of vehicles, but only for emissions-related stuff. The live sensor data screen shows the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor with a "no" or "present" during cranking to show if their signals are showing up. The few other scanners I have used do the same thing, but you need a full scanner. Simple code readers will not show sensor data.

I do not know the location of the relay of which you speak, but if you have twelve volts to the fuel pump during cranking, that relay is being controlled by the engine computer. On most cars the computer uses the same control circuit to turn on the main relay. I have seen that called the "open circuit" relay on Toyota's. Chrysler calls that the "automatic shutdown", (ASD) relay. It can also be called the "EFI" relay, or something similar.

I do remember that on some imports, voltage to the ignition coil comes from a different relay than the one that feeds the fuel pump. You may find that you have twelve volts feeding the coil any time the ignition switch is on, but that will never be the case with the fuel pump. Check if/when you have twelve volts feeding the ignition coil. If it only shows up during cranking, the two circuits and the two position sensors are working.

For most cars, about ninety five percent of crank/no-starts are caused by a loss of one of those sensor signals. Perhaps three or four percent are caused by bad fuel pumps, and the tiny remainder by the ignition coil. If your engine uses a coil pack, a failed coil will only affect two cylinders. From the diagrams I remember looking at, there is an ignition module inside the distributors. If your engine uses a distributor, that is a good suspect. Your camshaft position sensor will be in there too, but it goes by a different name on Toyota's.

One more comment of value you might consider is most import engines are of the "interference" design. A broken or jumped timing belt will cause valves to be bent by the pistons. On the few Chrysler engines that use that miserable design, the engine computer can detect a jumped timing belt. At one tooth off, it sets a fault code for "Cam and crank sync", and turns on the check engine light. At two teeth off, it shuts the engine down to protect the valves by turning off the ASD relay. That ruins the fuel pump, the ignition coil pack, and the injectors. At three teeth off, the valves would be bent. I have never run into that on any other brand of vehicle, but it bares mentioning.
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Monday, November 27th, 2017 AT 6:08 PM
Tiny
ALLEN.M
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  • 3 POSTS
Thanks. Will check on all that in the morning and let you know what I come up with.
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Monday, November 27th, 2017 AT 7:04 PM

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