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Idle and driveability issues

Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 2013 CHEVROLET CRUZE
  • 1.8L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 100,000 MILES
I have been trying to run down an idle issue with my car for a month! Occasional stalling when at idle (seem worse now) and I have noticed if I drive an extended period on the hwy when I slow on an off ramp it surges to about 2,000 rpm's and after a few seconds drops to 500 almost stalls and eventually settles in at around 700 rpm's. I am getting stabillitrak service messages occasionally as well but not all the time ( could be unrelated but never know with these cars lol). Now that said on with what I have done:
1) Negative battery cable change.
2) Checked for vac leaks (changed intake boot and valve cover due to cracks and PCV).
3) Intake VVT solenoid.
4) Cleaned throttle body (dirty after 100,000).
5) Bank 1 O2 sensor upstream.
6) Reset ECU by pulling fuses for 30 minutes.
7) Unplugged throttle connector to see if idle changed and ran worse.

And now scan tool showed fault on fuel system A which is a first. I am at a loss on what to do next. Any help would be appreciated. I am trying to keep it out of shop if at all possible and am willing to do work myself. Like to learn how to fix things myself. :)
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Friday, September 13th, 2019 AT 4:39 PM

27 Replies

Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Good evening,

Try this procedure for idle relearn.

Roy

I had to break this up in sections for you.

Throttle/Idle Learn

Description

The engine control module (ECM) learns the airflow through the throttle body to ensure the correct idle. The learned airflow values are stored within the ECM. These values are learned to adjust for production variation and will continuously learn during the life of the vehicle to compensate for reduced airflow due to throttle body coking. Anytime the throttle body airflow rate changes, for example due to cleaning or replacing, the values must be relearned.

An engine that had a heavily coked throttle body that has been cleaned or replaced may take several drive cycles to learn out the coking. To accelerate the process, the scan tool has the ability to reset all learned values back to zero. A new ECM will also have values set to zero.

The idle may be unstable or a DTC may set if the learned values do not match the actual airflow.
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Friday, September 13th, 2019 AT 6:10 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Hello again,

The rest of the procedure.

Roy

Reset Procedure

DTCs P0068, P0101, P0102, P0103, P0106, P0107, P0108, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0120, P0122, P0123, P0128, P0171, P0172, P0174, P0175, P0201, P0202, P0203, P0204, P0205, P0206, P0220, P0222, P0223, P0300, P0351, P0352, P0353, P0496, P0601, P0604, P0606, P060D, P0641, P0651, P1516, P2101, P2119, P2120, P2122, P2123, P2125, P2127, P2128, P2135, P2138, or P2176 are not set.

Ignition ON, engine OFF.

The vehicle speed sensor (VSS) is 0 km/h (0 mph).

Learn Procedure

DTCs P0068, P0101, P0102, P0103, P0106, P0107, P0108, P0116, P0117, P0118, P0120, P0122, P0123, P0128, P0171, P0172, P0174, P0175, P0201, P0202, P0203, P0204, P0205, P0206, P0220, P0222, P0223, P0300, P0351, P0352, P0353, P0496, P0601, P0604, P0606, P060D, P0641, P0651, P1516, P2101, P2119, P2120, P2122, P2123, P2125, P2127, P2128, P2135, P2138, or P2176 are not set.

The engine speed is between 450-4,000 RPM.

The manifold absolute pressure (MAP) is greater than 5 kPa.

The mass air flow (MAF) is greater than 2 g/s.

The ignition voltage is greater than 10 volts.

Throttle Learn

Reset Procedure (Performed after the throttle body is cleaned or replaced)

1. Ignition ON, engine OFF, perform the Idle Learn Reset in Module Setup with a scan tool.

2. Start the engine and monitor the TB Idle Airflow Compensation parameter. The TB Idle Airflow Compensation value should equal 0 percent and the engine should be idling at a normal idle speed.

3. Clear the DTCs and return to the diagnostic that referred you here.

Learn Procedure (Performed after the ECM is flashed or replaced)

Note:
Do NOT perform this procedure if DTCs are set. Refer to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle See: A L L Diagnostic Trouble Codes ( DTC ) > Diagnostic Trouble Code Descriptions > Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List - Vehicle.

1. Start and idle the engine for 3 minutes.

2. With a scan tool, monitor the Desired Idle Speed and the actual Engine Speed.

3. The ECM will start to learn the new idle cells and Desired Idle Speed should start to decrease.

4. Ignition OFF for 60 seconds.

5. Start and idle the engine for 3 minutes.

6. After the 3 minute run time the engine should be idling normal.

Note:
During the drive cycle the check engine light may come on with idle speed DTCs. If idle speed codes are set, clear codes so the ECM can continue to learn.

If the engine idle speed has not been learned the vehicle will need to be driven at speeds above 70 km/h (44 mph) with several decelerations and extended idles.

7. After the drive cycle, the engine should be idling normally.

If the engine idle speed has not been learned, turn OFF the ignition for 60 seconds and repeat step 6.

8. Once the engine speed has returned to normal, clear DTCs and return to the diagnostic that referred you here.
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Friday, September 13th, 2019 AT 6:12 PM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Thank you so much for replying! I can do the relearn again but it has been a week of driving it now after I did that. My apologies for not putting that I did that already. I am wondering if a mass air flow sensor could be doing this? I hooked up my obd scanner and watched the MAF sensor when I drove around at different speeds and noticed that it never got over 50g and that was full throttle entering the highway. Dropped as low as 1.6 at a stop light and died. While on the highway at a steady speed the readings were not steady either. I don't know if that an indication of a bad MAF sensor or not just grasping at straws, lol. If that seems okay then I will continue with another relearn as directed and go from there. Thanks again so much for replying!
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Friday, September 13th, 2019 AT 7:49 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Yes, the sensor could be the issue.

I would start there.

Roy
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Saturday, September 14th, 2019 AT 5:39 AM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Okay, changed MAF sensor, drove 3 days and it seemed like it was learning and driving better. Today 0171 code again. Any ideas? Airflow is reading higher for sure but guess not the only issue since still getting check engine light.
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Friday, September 20th, 2019 AT 5:38 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Okay, you never told me you had a code 171. that would have helped a lot.

Any other information I need to know?

It is running lean which means the long term trims are high.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/repair-lean-mixture-codes-p0171-or-p0174-on-some-manufacturers

The most common issue for this is low fuel pressure. Verify the fuel pressure would be my first choice.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Roy

P0171
Descriptor
Probable Causes
Air Filter
Air Intake System
Crankcase Ventilation System
Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Canister Cracked
Evaporative Emission (EVAP) Pipes, Lines and Hoses
Fuel Injector
Fuel Level Low
Fuel Pressure Low
Fuel Quality
Injector O-Rings Vacuum Leak
Intake Manifold Vacuum Leak
Mass Air flow (MAF) Sensor
Throttle Body Assembly
Vacuum Hose/Line
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Friday, September 20th, 2019 AT 5:50 PM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Okay I will check the fuel trims at the rail. Will have to borrow a tester from a buddy. Obd2 says right around 400psi.
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Friday, September 20th, 2019 AT 5:55 PM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Okay, I apologize for not putting the code. The only other thing I can think of is stabilitrak and traction control lights once in awhile but that seems to happen anytime there is an issue with anything on this car, including low/bad batteries.
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Friday, September 20th, 2019 AT 6:00 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
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400? Not a chance.

Pressures below in lbs.

Roy

Do not perform the Fuel System Diagnosis if the engine coolant temperature is above 60°C (150°F). High fuel pressure readings may result due to hot soak fuel boiling. With the engine OFF, the fuel pressure may increase beyond the pressure relief regulator valve's setting point of 690 kPa (100 psi) ± 5 percent.

Ignition ON, engine OFF, command the Fuel Pump Enable On several times with a scan tool.
Verify the fuel pressure is between 345-650 kPa (50-94 psi) with the fuel pump running.
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Friday, September 20th, 2019 AT 6:15 PM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Sorry 399kpa not psi. I will do it cold when I get a gauge.
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Saturday, September 21st, 2019 AT 5:26 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Keep me updated.

Roy
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Saturday, September 21st, 2019 AT 5:27 AM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Update today after putting gas in it. Car wouldnt start on first attempt and second attempt had to hit gas to get it to start and go. It died the last time I put gas in it and started the car to idle it just quietly died. Just figured it was part of the problem I was having before this. Fuel gauges will be here tomorrow so will check pressure at rail but I think were on the right track with what you thought.
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Sunday, September 22nd, 2019 AT 2:32 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
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Yes, I agree.

Keep me updated.

Roy
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Sunday, September 22nd, 2019 AT 2:35 PM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Okay my scan tool cannot command cars fuel pump so I tested a couple times after fuel pump would audibly kick on without starting it. Both times it tested at 58kpa and after a couple minutes dropped to 52kpa.
Turned car on under load 60kpa and held under idle. Reved and dropped a few kpa.
Turned car off and pressure stays at 59kpa until I released pressure to unhook gauge.
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Monday, September 23rd, 2019 AT 5:03 PM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
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Okay, 59 KPA is way too low. If you looked at the specs I posted, it should be much higher.

Roy
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Tuesday, September 24th, 2019 AT 6:29 AM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
Crud think I got those backwards again think those are psi numbers.
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Tuesday, September 24th, 2019 AT 6:55 AM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
So it would be more like 399kpa so on low end of those numbers you posted.
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Tuesday, September 24th, 2019 AT 6:59 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
  • 52,797 POSTS
Correct.

Roy
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Tuesday, September 24th, 2019 AT 7:33 AM
Tiny
LANCE GAGNE
  • MEMBER
  • 34 POSTS
So is that low enough to cause my issues? If so ill change it next. Sorry if im asking too many questions lol. I just want to be able to diagnose my own problems and fix it. I dont trust any dealships here.
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Tuesday, September 24th, 2019 AT 7:47 AM
Tiny
ASEMASTER6371
  • MECHANIC
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No worries. That is why we are here.

Yes, that is the next step.

Roy
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Tuesday, September 24th, 2019 AT 7:57 AM

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