Engine is hard starting?

YOUSSEF HADDOUCHAN

MEMBER
2013 TOYOTA COROLLA
1.6L
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
100,000 MILES

Dear Sir,
My car starts right away in the morning when the engine is cold (twenty five degrees and below). When the ECT is in-between thirties to fifties C the engine starts after long cranking (like five or seven seconds) or cranking for the second time and sometimes starts and stalls immediately. I have replaced sparks, air filter, fuel filter, cleaned MAF, replaced battery but no improvement. I have tested crank position sensor resistance and it was 2.17 kilomes at cold and 2.63 Koms at hot condition. I also noticed that when I cleaned crank sensor long cranking disappeared and only stalling immediately when starting is what I still suffer from.
Thank you very much for any help you may provide.

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Sunday, November 5th, 2017 AT 1:35 AM

38 Replies

KHLOW2008

MECHANIC
41,814 POSTS

Seems like the cold start system is not functioning correctly. Check the IAC valve attached to the throttle body for sticking. Have the throttle body cleaned and retest. This guide can help us fix it

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-cranks-excessively-before-starting

and

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/throttle-actuator-service

Please run down this guide and report back.

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Monday, November 6th, 2017 AT 1:23 AM

YOUSSEF HADDOUCHAN

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2 POSTS

Thanks dear, gonna do that and be back

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Monday, November 6th, 2017 AT 10:02 PM

SMOKEN

MEMBER
7 POSTS
2010 TOYOTA COROLLA
1.6L
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
85,000 MILES

Hi all, my vehicle wouldnt start at all suddenly. It was just crancking.

I replaced the fuel pump itself not the complete assy and cleaned fuel filter. The vehicle worked well

But im suffering engine hard starting at morning or after parking vehicle for long time. The vehicle acceleration is very well.

Someone told me that there is a valve inside fuel pump assy should be cleaned or replaced.

Wat should I do!

P.S. The fuel pump that I changed isnt geniune part.

Regards.

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER

MECHANIC
1,136 POSTS

Its a check valve that keeps the fuel lines full of fuel when the vehicle is shut off. Your pump is fine and the valve may be available aftermarket as well

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

ILCC

MEMBER
4 POSTS
2007 TOYOTA COROLLA
1.9L
4 CYL
2WD
AUTOMATIC
60,000 MILES

My car has the following:

- Long crank time (4 to 7 seconds), especially when warm.
- Smells like fuel when first started, especially in morning.
- Reduced gas mileage.
- Idles a little rough, and idles a little low when stopped at 700 rpm (when first start it the rpm will shoot up randomly to 1500 rpm and then go back down).
- Slight hesitation while riding but other than that drives fin.
- Tests show it doesn't maintain prime after about 6-8 minutes (so if you try to start car up again after you drive and it sits then it will long crank).
The only check engine light right now is related to catalytic converter below efficiency P0420. Only other check engine light that went on a few months ago was P0171 (lean condition).

Since P0171 code went on a few months ago the following parts have been replaced (with a ton of diag time):

1. The Delphi (OEM) fuel pump assembly has been changed out twice OEM part.
2, New spark plugs (OEM Denso). Also made sure ignition coil packs are good.
3. New intake manifold gasket (OEM Denso).
4. New Mass Air Flow sensor (OEM Denso).
5. Cleaned fuel injectors and put new o-rings on seats on)
6. Cleaned throttle body.
7. New Crankshaft Sensor (OEM Denso)
8. New Evap Canister Purge Solenoid (OEM Denso)

One mechanic thinks it may be a problem with engine (pistons or rings).
One mechanic thinks the computer may be faulty and not communicating properly timing to fuel injectors.

Help?

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,716 POSTS

Hi,

The idea that you have a long crank time is most likely the result of pressure as you first mentioned. Piston rings (low compression) would cause lower power and it would not change the fuel pressure. The idea that you smell fuel is a concern as well. Do you ever notice black smoke from the exhaust when you first start it?

Listen, if you haven't already, I need you to check fuel pressure and fuel pressure drop off. Here is a link explaining how that is done in general:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

Here are directions specific to your vehicle. The attached pics correlate with these directions.

___________________________________

2007 Toyota Corolla L4-1.8L (1ZZ-FE)
Component Tests and General Diagnostics
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Fuel Pump Fuel Pressure Testing and Inspection Component Tests and General Diagnostics
COMPONENT TESTS AND GENERAL DIAGNOSTICS
ON-VEHICLE INSPECTION

1. CHECK FUEL PUMP OPERATION

pic 1

a. Connect the intelligent tester to the DLC3.
b. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.

NOTE: Do not start the engine.

c. Turn the intelligent tester on.
d. Select the following menu items: DIAGNOSIS / ENHANCED OBD II / ACTIVE TEST / FUEL PUMP/ SPD.
e. Check the fuel operation while operating it with the intelligent tester.

If the fuel pump does not operate, replace the fuel pump.

pic 2

f. If you have no intelligent tester, connect the positive (+) lead from the battery to terminal 5 of the connector, and the negative (-) lead to terminal 4.

NOTE:
- These tests must be done quickly (for less than 10 seconds) to prevent the coil from burning out.
- Keep the fuel pump as far away from the battery as possible.
- Always do the switching at the battery side.

g. Check that there is pressure remaining in the fuel inlet pipe from the fuel line.

HINT: If there is fuel pressure, you will hear the sound of fuel flow. If there is no fuel pressure, check these parts: Fusible link, Fuses, Main relay Fuel pump, ECM and Wire harness.

h. Turn the intelligent tester off.
i. Turn the ignition switch to the LOCK position.
j. Disconnect the intelligent tester from the DLC3.

2. CHECK FUEL PRESSURE
a. Using a voltmeter, measure the battery voltage.

Standard voltage: 11 to 14V

b. Discharge fuel system pressure.
c. Disconnect the cable from the negative (-) battery terminal.

pic 3

d. Remove the fuel pipe clamp No. 1.
e. Pinch the retainer of the fuel tube connector, then pull the fuel tube connector out of the pipe to disconnect the fuel tube.

NOTE:
- Check that there is no dirt or other foreign objects around the connector before disconnecting it. Clean the connector if necessary.
- It is necessary to prevent mud or dirt from entering the connector. If mud or dirt gets in the connector, the O-rings may not seal properly.
- Only disconnect the quick connector by hand.
- Do not bend, kink or twist the nylon tubes.
- Protect the connector by covering it with a plastic bag.
- If the pipe and connector are stuck, carefully try wiggling or pushing and pulling on the connector to release it. Pull the connector off the pipe carefully.

pic 4

f. Install SST and the fuel tube connector into the vehicle.

SST 09268-31011 (09268-41500, 90467-13001, 95336-08070), 09268-45014 (09268-41200, 09268-41220, 09268-41250)

g. Wipe off any split gasoline.
h. Connect the cable to the negative (-) battery terminal.

Torque: 5.4 N.m (55 kgf.cm, 48 in.lbf)

pic 5

i. Connect the intelligent tester to the DLC3.
j. Turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
k. Turn the intelligent tester on.
l. Select the following menu items: DIAGNOSIS / ENHANCED OBD II / ACTIVE TEST / FUEL PUMP/ SPD.

pic 6

m. If you have no intelligent tester, connect the positive (+) lead from the battery to terminal 5 of the connector, and the negative (-) lead to terminal 4.
n. Measure the fuel pressure.

Standard: 304 to 343 kPa (3.1 to 3.5 kgf/sq.cm, 44 to 50 psi)

- If the fuel pressure is greater than the standard value, replace the fuel pump.
- If the fuel pressure is less than the standard value, check the connection of the fuel hose and fuel pump.

o. Disconnect the intelligent tester from the DLC3.
p. Start the engine.
q. Measure the fuel pressure when the engine idles.

Standard: 304 to 343 kPa (3.1 to 3.5 kgf/sq.cm, 44 to 50 psi)

r. Stop the engine.
s. After stopping the engine, check that the fuel pressure does not change for 5 minutes.

Standard: 147 kPa (1.5 kgf/sq.cm, 21 psi) or more

If the fuel pressure is not as specified, check the fuel pump or fuel injector.

pic 7

t. Connect the fuel tube.
1. Align the fuel tube connector with the pipe, then push the fuel tube connector in until the retainer makes a "click" sound to connect the fuel tube to the pipe.

NOTE:
- Check that there are no scratches or foreign objects around the connected part of the fuel tube connector and pipe before performing this work.
- After connecting the fuel tube, check that the fuel tube is securely connected by pulling the fuel tube connector.

u. Install the fuel pipe clamp No. 1.
v. Check for fuel leaks.

_________________________

If this is something you already have done, let me know. We will move on at that point.

Joe

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

ILCC

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Hi Joe. Thank you so much for your reply. There is no black smoke coming from the exhaust. Early in the morning it can be a bit white/gray but goes away. There has been a very small amount of milky substance on oil fill cap during the winter but no boiling of coolant, etc so mechanic thinks that was condensation not head gasket. I do not have a fuel pressure kit but I am open to getting one if needed. My mechanics did test fuel pressure and it reads fine except it doesn't hold prime after it is warm (thus long crank). Keep in mind that the fuel assembly (which includes the regulator and filter was replaced twice - once and then again in case that was the problem). The smell of fuel is only when starting especially in the morning and it goes away after about 10 seconds. Once I drive it I don't smell fuel and after you start it again after it is warmed up I don't smell fuel.
I also forgot to mention that a smoke test was done to rule out vacuum and showed no leak anywhere, including going back to fuel pump. Remember, the only other code it showed was a P0171 a couple of months ago. The current code is the catalytic converter code P0420. Both the 02 sensors have been change twice (with Denso OEM sensors). I don't did replace the catalytic converter a few months ago and that unfortunately due to money I used an aftermarket part. Then the code returned. So I don't think the converter is running great and likely needs to be replaced again. My engine scan shows the downstream 02 sensor fluctuating too much after it is warmed up. That wouldn't impact the crank time or idle issue though as far as I know. Also, the PCV valve was replaced too early in this process and the engine coolant temperature sensor I was told was checked and read okay.

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,716 POSTS

It sounds like several attempts to find a leak have been done. However, were fuel injectors checked for a leak? What you can do is pinch off the return fuel line to the tank and see if pressure is held when the engine is off. If an injector is leaking, pressure would be lost and you may get a fuel smell. If you look through this link, it explains how in general an injector is checked:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-fuel-injector

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Here are the directions specific to your vehicle for testing a fuel injector. The attached pics correlate with the directions.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

2007 Toyota Corolla L4-1.8L (1ZZ-FE)
Component Tests and General Diagnostics
Vehicle Powertrain Management Fuel Delivery and Air Induction Fuel Injector Testing and Inspection Component Tests and General Diagnostics
COMPONENT TESTS AND GENERAL DIAGNOSTICS
INSPECTION

INSPECT FUEL INJECTOR ASSEMBLY

a. Check the resistance.

pic 1

pic 2

1. Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between the terminals.

If the result is not as specified, replace the fuel injector.

b. Inspect the injector injection volume.

CAUTION: Keep the injector away from sparks during this test.

pic 3

1. Connect SST (fuel tube connector) to SST (hose), then connect them to the fuel pipe (the vehicle side).

SST 09268-31011 (09268-41500, 90467-13001,95336-08070)

pic 4

2. Install the O-ring to the fuel injector.
3. Connect SST (adapter and hose) to the injector, and hold the injector and union with SST (clamp).

SST 09268-31011 (09268-41110, 09268-41300,90467-13001)

pic 5

4. Put the fuel injector into the graduated cylinder.

CAUTION: Install a suitable vinyl tube onto the injector to contain gasoline spray.

5. Operate the fuel pump.
6. Install SST onto the fuel injector.

SST 09842-30080

pic 6

7. Connect SST (wire) to the injector and battery for 15 seconds, and measure the injection volume with the graduated cylinder. Test each injector 2 or 3 times.

NOTE: Always do the switching at the battery side.

HINT: If the result is not as specified, replace the fuel injector.

c. Inspect the fuel leakage.

pic 7

1. Disconnect the SST (wire) tester probes from the battery and check the fuel leakage from the injector.

Standard: 1 drop or less every 12 minutes

HINT: If the result is not as specified, replace the fuel injector.

2. Turn the ignition switch off.
3. Disconnect the cable from the negative (-) battery terminal.
4. Remove the SST.
5. Disconnect the intelligent tester from the DLC3.
6. Reconnect the fuel main tube to the fuel pipe.

_____________________________________________________________________________________

Since pressure isn't holding, it has to be going somewhere. You replaced most every part there is. There is a chance an injector leaking and draining off pressure.

Let me know if you had this done already or can do it.

Take care,
Joe

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

ILCC

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Hi Joe. I did take all injectors out and clean them and replace all o-rings and little cushion "seats" that come with them. I also used hear all clicking the same when using mechanic stethoscope while car is running. Having said that I have wondered if there could be a problem with the fuel injectors despite what I have done to it? Have you ever heard of what one of my mechanics thinks about the computer needing to be re-flashed or replaced (and that may be not communicating properly with the injection timing?). The second mechanic I saw doesn't think that could be the problem because he thinks I would have other issues than just what I am having if the computer was faulty.

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,716 POSTS

Honestly, I don't feel that would be the cause. The computer gathers information from several input sensors and functions from multiple readings from the sensors. Now, if for an example there was a correlation variation between the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor, that could cause a timing issue. However, it would also set a code indicating a problem and that hasn't happened. Plus, you noted that fuel pressure drops when the engine is turned off. It should not drop at all for at least the first five minutes after you turn the vehicle off. So, I tend to agree with the second tech you met with and feel there is a leak at some point.

As far as the injectors, could you perform the procedure I provide to check if one could be leaking?

Let me know.

Joe

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

ILCC

MEMBER
4 POSTS

Hi Joe. I am hoping to get to the fuel injectors tests you suggested soon. Things have been crazy. But wanted to keep you in the loop since you have been so gracious to help me on this and very grateful.
Chris

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

JACOBANDNICKOLAS

MECHANIC
109,716 POSTS

Chris,

Not a problem. I just hope I can help. Take care and let me know what you find.

Take care,
Joe

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

JROCK14

MEMBER
19 POSTS
2007 TOYOTA COROLLA
1.8L
4 CYL
FWD
AUTOMATIC
123,000 MILES

Hello, my car is the LE model. It has two codes which are P0171 and P0113. Now so far I have tested the MAF sensor wiring which is working properly, replaced the MAF sensor and the new one is working according to my multi-meter readings, new intake gasket, new valve cover gasket because there was oil in the spark plug wells, new spark plugs, checked the coil packs, checked the fuel injectors, new air filter, have not checked the throttle body but when I did the intake gasket I do not remember seeing any dirt, camshaft position sensor is fine, crankshaft position sensor has not been checked, and I do not have any vacuum leaks. The starter turns the motor over just fine but it struggles firing up and it is becoming worse. I have not checked the o2 sensors but I doubt they have anything to do with the starting and I do not seem to have any of the symptoms listed with them. The car also vibrates at idle and tends to stumble on acceleration and jerks when accelerating as well. I do not know why the codes have not gone away and I really need to fix the hard starting. Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you.

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

KEN L

MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
47,536 POSTS

If you have a cylinder that has low compression it will misfire causing a lean code much like you are getting. I would start with a compression test so we do not chase our tail.

Here is a guide to help us get started:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

Please let us know what happens.

Cheers, Ken

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

JROCK14

MEMBER
19 POSTS

I will check the compression of the cylinders later on this week. I will keep you posted on my results. Thanks again.

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

KEN L

MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
47,536 POSTS

Sound good. :)

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

JROCK14

MEMBER
19 POSTS

Sorry for the long wait but I just did the compression test and the results were all good with 180 psi being the lowest across the 4 cylinders. I got the P0113 code off well at least it says so until I drive a couple more miles at least to see if it'll come back on. The P0171 is still there and I tested my oxygen sensor before the catalytic converter with my voltmeter and if read 3.3 ohms so I'm not sure if I should replace it because my car still is taking forever to start and hesitating when you give it gas on idle.

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

KEN L

MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
47,536 POSTS

It sounds to me like the MAF sensor needs to be replaced. The funny thing about MAF's is that they can be off causing the problems you are describing and not through a code for the sensor becasue there is not a complete failure, it is just off a little.

Here is a guide

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-a-mass-air-flow-sensor-maf

This might help as well.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/repair-lean-mixture-codes-p0171-or-p0174-on-some-manufacturers

Please let us know what you find.

Cheers, Ken

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

JROCK14

MEMBER
19 POSTS

I just replaced the MAF sensor about a week ago and it didn't change anything on the car but I tested the MAF sensor readings along with the connector wires and the wires are reading correctly as they should. The sensor is reading 1.2 volts on the sensor wire and goes to 1.7 at 3,000 rpms and drops back down to 1.2 at idle. The only thing that concerns me is that the IAT reading on my live data is around 95 when it's 70 degrees outside but I haven't read the live data when the car was driving so it could be from heat being in the engine bay but that's my only concern because it is a brand new sensor. Let me try to explain it a little better on how the car starts. Let's say you disconnect the spark plugs and try to start the engine for about 4 seconds but when it begins to start to fire after the 4 seconds or so it's like it's only firing on 3 cylinders and it's stumbling bad and after another 2 or 3 seconds it may start or I'll start over again and it may be a little quicker the next time. Now I thought about the fuel pump but it doesn't stumble or feel like it's going to die on the highway at higher speeds so I kind of ruled that out and I've tried turning the key on and pedal the car and wait b before starting it to see if the fuel pressure might be low but the start up would still be the same afterwards.

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Thursday, October 15th, 2020 AT 12:04 PM (Merged)

KEN L