Crank no start issue, has spark and fuel?

Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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  • 1996 CHEVROLET EXPRESS
  • 5.0L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 220,000 MILES
Hi, I'm very grateful for this site and thank you in advance.

Here is my issue: going to work stopped at a traffic light, the van shut off tried restarting and van sounded like it was off timing. Towed it home.

Will explain a few things why so many parts were changed.

Left van sitting outside one year and two months came back February 2022 and cranked no start. After diagnosing changed MAF, and ECM (flashmasters).

Van ran really nice. Mid-summer 2022 changed rotted out catalytic converter with four new O2 ACDelco sensors.

I went on a summer trip and the van shut off, no spark, I had no tools, so I threw parts at it changed coil and distributor but that wasn't the issue. It ended up being the CPS.

Now to where I am currently, that van shut off at a traffic light. I changed out the timing chain thinking it stretched or jumped, (it didn't the dots were aligned perfectly) because when I changed the distributor, I didn't use a scanner to get it to sit at 0 degrees -+2. The engine would slightly ping when it shifted to overdrive. After I buttoned everything up it still did not start.

I re-stabbed the distributor using the manual technique by putting cylinder number 1 on compression TDC then manually moving the damper mark to notch on timing cover. Still no start.


Check fuel pressure key open says 60 PSI and holds.

Has spark.

Went ahead and used a Noid light to test pulse at fuel injectors and I got pulse so I changed the fuel injectors (had converted to MFI in 2011) I installed a new MFI, new upper plenum with gaskets. Still no start.

Changed fuel filter no start.

Changed spark plug wires no start.

Does not start with starting fluid.

The strange thing is when it cranks it cranks like it has good compression and the engine before it shut off was very strong, no oil consumption whatsoever.

Strange thing 2: other day I unplugged the computer overnight and when I plugged it in the following day it started a few times ran a little rough since it burned off all the excess fuel but idle so after that. It won't start back up. I did borrow an older Tech 2 Genysis scanner but I am limited to what I can do since I never used one. I dint see any codes.

Lastly since all these sensors are under warranty I replaced the CPS and distributor still no start. I am waiting for an ECM since it still has a warranty.

Can it be the fuel pressure? I can't find what fuel pressure the MFI spider upgrade should be at, I've read conflicting specs on forums that call for 61-66 PSI, but someone had said that's for stock poppet valve spider system CFI. MFI needs less PSI to operate.

I do have a new Delphi pump in case I can't start it with the “new ECM”

Any input would be appreciated I need the van to go back to work it'sha been three weeks and I am stumped.

I attached a video; you can hear the engine almost starts but falls flat.
Wednesday, December 14th, 2022 AT 3:05 AM

18 Replies

Tiny
KEN L
  • MASTER CERTIFIED MECHANIC
  • 47,513 POSTS
Thanks for the video, it helps. The fuel pressure should not jump down like that first of all, but can you remove the spark plugs to see what they look like please? Upload the images with your response. You may have a catalytic converter that is clogged up. If the plugs are black, we have found the problem, replace the spark plug with new. Also, when cranking try starting fluid again to see if the condition changes. Let me know. I will pass this on to Joe as well.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 12:01 PM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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Thanks for the response. I always take out spark plug number one to put the engine at TD compression stroke. It's definitely rich. I am not sure I ever got the original issue resolved when the van shut off. The catalytic is maybe 7 months old and it is a Magna flow. The fuel pressure is the huge question mark I can't figure out. We have that storm that came from the mid-west and it's raining a lot here. I will try to get to some of the plugs from inside.

The only things I have not changed, that are big, fuel pump and spark plugs.

A recap of what I have changed, not all parts were changed because of this current issue:

New spark plug wires December 2022.
Coil changed in August 2022.
New MAF May 2022.
New distributor with cap and rotor December 2022.
New CPS December 2022.
New exhaust including cat and O2 sensors-May 2022.
New timing change December 2022.
New fuel filter December 2022.
New fuel injectors December 2022.
New timing chain December 2022.
Remanufactured ECM (just received a fresh one today) will install it when the rain stops a bit.
New upper intake manifold and new upper and lower gaskets.

The fuel PSI has me with a question mark. It definitely holds really well. Will try to make a video again for you cranking.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 2:44 PM
Tiny
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Update: so, I got another ECM today and just plugged it in and still nothing, it started a little but ran rough and shut off and did not start again. Will try to do the spark plug removal. At least we know it's not an ECM issue, I am guessing. The only things left to diagnose are plugs or fuel pressure. Thank you again.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 7:13 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Ken let me know you were in touch. What he is suggesting is important. It could simply be the spark plugs are fouled. Let us know if they are wet/black in color. If they are, replace them. Also, you may want to remove one of the oxygen sensors before the catalytic converters. See pic 1 below for locations. If you have a plugged converter, this will allow an escape of exhaust. It may not run perfectly because there is still a restriction, but it will certainly make a difference if the problem is related to the converter.

I watched the video. I don't like how the fuel pressure gauge dropped when you first started cranking the engine. Does it do that every time? Also, is the metallic sound coming from the starter area?

Let us know what you find with the spark plugs. Also, see if the sound is coming from the starter area or even one of the catalytic converters.

Take care,

Joe

See pic below.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 7:51 PM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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Hi, I happened to get the replacement EXM today that's why I decided to give it a shot just in case. We have a large storm passing over NyC with lots of constant rain, got really wet changing the ECM.

The metallic sound came from the front crank pulley being loose but that's all buttoned up.

The gauge does do that drop a lot when cranking.

Will definitely try removing the plugs with pics.

By the way the cat was replaced at the end of May with fresh O2 sensors.

Thank you, guys.
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 9:27 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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The crankshaft position sensor is behind the front crank pulley. By chance, was there any wiring or sensor damage?

Also, the rain finally stopped here. I'm in Pittsburgh, but like you, we go a lot! LOL

I do have another thought. If you have a live data scan tool, confirm the engine coolant temperature sensor signal seems accurate. I dealt with one of these that drove me crazy. The ECT was telling the PCM it was 40 degrees below 0 F. As a result, it was flooding the engine.

Let us know.

Joe
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Thursday, December 15th, 2022 AT 9:35 PM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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Hey Joe, I am a little crazy as I worked on cars on all kinds of weather including snow. I did the timing chain on this van in “warm” weather two weeks ago it was around 28 degrees. I am trying to work less in inclement weather as my bones don't like it, many bone aches especially on my joints.

So, as I stated above, I will definitely remove the plugs when the rain subsides. Do you think the cat is clogged even though I replaced it in May 2022?

I will post some pics but the reading on the coolant temperature sensor seems normal as it matches the outdoor ambient temperature by a few degrees. I couldn’t crank it as it’s 3am and I don't want my neighbors bickering. Took screen shots of some info on the scanner. The weather screen shot was taken when I took the readings.

No wiring was damaged at the CPS and the pigtail was replaced back in August of this year and the van ran superb.

Thank you again!
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 12:44 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

I looked through the pics and suspected the engine wasn't running at that time. As far as the catalytic converter is concerned, it's possible, but if it is that new, chances are that isn't the cause.

Did you try removing the spark plugs?

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, December 16th, 2022 AT 8:59 PM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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Hi fellas, hope you have a good morning. So, I got around to taking out four of the spark plugs on driver side, and they were all wet and fouled as in burning rich. My guess is that they were fouled up from so much cranking and no start I put in a brand-new distributor since I had it under warranty before I took out the plugs and still no start. The plugs were put in 2018 and they are iridium AC Delco, one thing that I did notice while cranking is that the spark is kind of weak. I have an extra coil, but it does the same weak, spark, or maybe I think it’s weak. Ignore the first spark plug on the left, I cleaned it up a little bit.

So brand new distributor, which comes with a brand-new cap and rotor and then I tested with a good known ignition coil and still no start. Cranking has been done with a battery charger on the engine, so that’s why it sounds so eager to crank. I ordered a fresh set of spark plugs and they get here on Wednesday.
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Monday, December 19th, 2022 AT 8:00 AM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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I wanted to add that the plugs looks bad because back in May of this year the engine started smoking a lot of what appeared to be white smoke I was on my way to work and really thought the engine went bad. Turned out to be the O-ring for the MAP sensor went bad and wasn't reading. I never did change the plugs after that.
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Monday, December 19th, 2022 AT 10:23 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Looking at the plugs, they are a mess. LOL Let's see what happens with the new ones. Actually, the electrode seems to be missing on one of them.

Let us know how things turn out for you.

Joe
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Monday, December 19th, 2022 AT 2:03 PM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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Yeah, that electrode I also thought was missing.

https://youtu.be/5Giua_Usp_U

https://youtube.com/shorts/Y4aJ9t2WyVs?feature=share
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Monday, December 19th, 2022 AT 5:51 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

I watched the video again. I noticed you lose spark after a couple of seconds then it returns. Are you sure the noise I heard from the crankshaft pulley hasn't damaged the new crankshaft position sensor?

Let me know.

Joe
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2022 AT 4:35 PM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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You know I noticed that too and also on an occasion notice the spark jumps from the side of electrode to within inside the spark plug body. Yeah, I changed the CPS after that anyway. I tried shimming it and nothing same issue. Right now, it has no shims.
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Tuesday, December 20th, 2022 AT 7:24 PM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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Hi again. I am in shock as my engine started today after installing the spark plugs. In all my life of tinkering with cars, I have never run into a situation like this. I am in shock. I know they were fouled up but what do you think happened or is it because the Vortech engine is so sensitive to spark being weak?
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2022 AT 2:44 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

No sir, that is common when the plugs get fouled. The one without the electrode certainly wasn't working. The others were simply in poor condition.

No matter what, I'm glad to know it is running for you and thankful it was a simple fix.

Thanks for the good news and feel free to come back anytime in the future. You are always welcome here.

Take good care of yourself and I wish you and your family a great Christmas.

Joe
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Wednesday, December 21st, 2022 AT 8:41 PM
Tiny
MATEO GONZALES
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Morning. Thank you so much for your help, it is greatly appreciated.

Happy holidays to you and your loved ones!
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Thursday, December 22nd, 2022 AT 3:57 AM

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