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1998 Chrysler Concorde Auto Temp Control

Tiny
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Hi Bob.

I appreciate the leg-work you're doing. If it turns out the places here have a compatible part, I might even try just going to their location if they're not too far away.

I'll stop by the dealership and see if they're willing to work with me on getting part numbers and telling me which part numbers fit which years. Sort of like a reverse engineered cross reference system.

For the arm rest, if I took it to an upholstery shop, they'd have to order the parts just like I would. It's the plastic frame that attaches at the hinge area that's broken. Cheap design that didn't stand up under me leaning on it while reaching into the back seat area. No biggee. Low on my priority list these days.

I'll let you know what I find out at the dealership.

Take care, Sir.

Bill
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Thursday, November 13th, 2008 AT 1:01 AM
Tiny
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Frustrating.

Hi Bob.

I talked with a service writer and a mechanic at the dealership where I have my car maintained yesterday. The mechanic said that I should use a new BCM because it is supposed to be programmed with the car's VIN and other data. Apparently, a used one may not allow the car to operate correctly. I have suspicions that the mechanic may be thinking of a newer version of car with a Chassis Control Module instead of a BCM. Next week I'll talk with the parts dept guy about this and see if the VINs I have might have compatible BCMs.

I really wish there was a source that could definitively say one way or the other whether I can use a different car's BCM or not.

Take care, Sir. I'll let you know what I find out next week.

Bill
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Saturday, November 15th, 2008 AT 8:13 PM
Tiny
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Bill

The BCM is programmable as you see from the info I have provided. You can program certain things for the customer. Soooooooo, I guess if you did find a good one, it would still have to be programmed for your car based off of what your car had.

It is still a pain cause you have to use the dealer no matter what. . .. . ..They should have a flash drive you can plug and unplug from car to car.

Let me know what you find out. Oh, I haven't received any responses from the parts request I sent out and it has been a week. Sorry.

Bob

The Body Control Module (BCM) supplies vehicle occupants with visual and audible information and controls various vehicle functions. To provide and receive information, the module is interfaced to the vehicle's serial bus communications network (the Programmable Communication Interface (PCI bus). This network consists of the powertrain control module (PCM) , the memory heat seat/mirror module (MHSMM) , sentry key immobilizer module (SKIM) , the transmission control module (TCM) , the electro/mechanical instrument cluster (MIC) , the optional overhead travel information system (OTIS) , airbag control module (ACM) , optional anti lock brakes (ABS) and the optional automatic temperature control (ATC) display head. The BCM is operational when battery power is supplied to the module, ignition switch power is needed for ignition switched functions.

The body control module provides the following features:

Automatic headlamp and foglamp
A/C switch status / evaporator temperature status
BCM diagnostic support
Central lock and unlock (VTSS only)
Climate Control (Automatic and Manual) system support
Door ajar switch status
Door Lock Inhibit (key in ignition or headlamps/park lamps on)
Electronic Odometer Support
Fog Lamp Control
Headlamp multiplexing control
Headlamp, Park & tail lamps with battery save feature
Headlamp Time Delay
Illuminated Entry with "fade to off"
Interior lighting with battery save feature
Mechanical Instrument Cluster (fuel level, dim data, odometer & warning chime) support
Memory system (LHS and 300M)
Overhead travel information system
Power door lock multiplexing control
Rear Window Defogger Control
Remote Keyless Entry with Panic Mode
Remote power decklid release
Rolling door lock control (customer programmable)
Sentry key immobilizer
Speed proportional steering
Vehicle Theft Security System
Wiper Control (speed sensitive with return to park)
The BCM receives information over the PCI Bus from the PCM in order to support certain features. The required information is as follows:

Engine RPM
Engine Temperature
Injector on Time and Distance Pulses
Vehicle Speed
Charging System Failure, Engine Temperature Limp-In, VTSS Arming Status
Engine Model
"Check Engine" lamp status
The BCM provides the PCM with information on the NC switch status, battery temperature which is determined by the ambient temperature sensor and the "OK to Start" or VTSS status.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_1_75.jpg




https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_2_52.jpg



The 1998 and 1999 LH has several customer programmable features which can be disabled or enabled by the customer.
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Saturday, November 15th, 2008 AT 8:32 PM
Tiny
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Hey Bill

I was going back over the post and was wondering about seeing if something else, some other system points to the BCM as bad also. But first I figured try the in vehicle calibration check to see if it throws any codes. I attached that info - pic below.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Picture12_2.jpg



Then, I was going back through the info - back on 31 Oct post the Sun Sensor was brought up as it does aid in determining proper mode door position, temperature door position and, blower speed. The only check I had was for the plug.

I have attached the system operation and how to check the plug back on the 31st of Oct but don't remember any other discussion on it. Here again is the operation. . ..

SYSTEM OPERATION
The sun sensor is only used on vehicles equipped with Automatic Temperature Control (ATC) . The sensor is mounted on the top of the instrument panel below the instrument panel top cover. This is not a thermistor type sensor but rather a photo diode. For this reason the sun sensor responds to sun light intensity rather than temperature. It is used to aid in determining proper mode door position, temperature door position and blower speed.

The sun sensor is also used to sense day/night conditions for automatic headlight control if so equipped, and has an LED indicator for the vehicle security system.

I was thinking about that BCM and though what about another system checking it. I attached the OTIS checkout. What I was looking at was number 2, if no communication replace the BCM.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Picture13_2.jpg



Next OTIS Test 2A. It calls for a scan tool in numbers 1 and 2 and talks about replacing that front sensor. You already replaced it so I say go to step 3 and use the Ohm meter and do this check to see again, does it point to the BCM. Also follow the testing with the ohm meter through steps 7 and 8. . ..see if they point to the BCM. That is below.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_31_1.jpg




https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_32_1.jpg



Next a little more info on the sun sensor - make sure clear etc. . ...below Pic


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Picture15_1.jpg




https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Picture16_1.jpg



But where I am heading is the next item. . ..pic below. Sun load sensor failure. Yes you need a scan tool (of course) but step 4 has you using an ohm meter and eventually says to replace the BCM.

Then the last item is the verification and recal info. . .pic below.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Picture17_1.jpg



Well, not sure if any of that is helpful. . ...just trying to get more confidence that the BCM is no good.

Let me know what you think after review of the above info.
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Thursday, November 20th, 2008 AT 7:52 AM
Tiny
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WOW!

This makes me want to break into a Chrysler dealership and steal one of those DTC gadgets. ;-)

I'll print out the post and study it. I know what your drive is in the line of thinking here. If I can find any more issues that point to the BCM that adds to the credibility for replacement of it. That was one of the reasons I ran through the testing of the trunk release button circuit. I'm 99% sure that the BCM is the culprit behind that not working. Adding one or two more systems to the hand might make for a winning combo.

I can also talk with the service writer at the dealership I use about getting a tech to do some additional testing using a DTC. I know it will cost $$$ but the confidence might make it worth it. Hmmmmmm. Lemme think about this a sec. I'm going to pay about $100 bucks for them to do a diagnostic run on the car where they've already told me "It's not setting any codes; we can't fix it." I think I'll break out the multimeter again and do some more "Bob tests". I like that idea better.

Thanks for the good ideas AGAIN!
I'll send an update as soon as I can get some time upside down and inside out on the floor of the car.

Take care, Sir.

Bill
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Thursday, November 20th, 2008 AT 11:09 PM
Tiny
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Well, well, well.

I started to run the ATC self test to see what codes might have been set, and guess what? No self test!

That's about all I was able to do today. I've come down with a really good cold and have zero motivation for very much in the way of thinking or getting upside down on the front floorboards.

I've been thinking about this, worrying that the ATC might have crapped out, but have come up with a different conclusion.

1. All buttons on ATC cause their respective funtions to work, as advertised. Doors change position and indications agree with the selections.
2. Where the ATC does not directly control these operations, but sends the info to the BCM by way of the PCI, that means the PCI is intact up to the BCM. The BCM is receiving the requests for the operations and responding accordingly.
3. The failure must be within the BCM since communication is intact up to and through the BCM.

Where the tests require such heavy dependence on the scan tool, there's very little other than an occassional voltage or continuity check I can do. I think that the presence of this pretty obvious failure is sufficient justification at this stage to change the BCM.

The service writer at the dealership talked about how customers buy these new from some supplier locally and then bring them to the dealer to be programmed. He indicated the cost is substantially less that what the dealership's parts dept charges. I think he'll tell me the name/location of the supplier so I can get one through them.

Thoughts?

Bill
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Sunday, November 23rd, 2008 AT 8:40 PM
Tiny
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Bill

Sorry to hear you are not feeling well. I totally understand...A cold, standing on your head, a contortioned position... Yea... Not a good mix.

No self test...I know you have done this 1000 times and the ONLY reason I ask is because you are not feeling well today. For the self test the control head can only be placed into the diagnostic mode while the engine is running and the vehicle is not moving.

The car was running... Right? Definitely not trying to insult you... That's for sure..... Just checking...

When you feel better what about getting the codes read at Auto Zone or O'Reilly's to see if a code is thrown?

All does seem to point to the BCM. The idea of picking it up and having the dealer program does sound like the best idea. Can you believe it, I never heard back from any of the places I sent out requests too... Maybe they didn't want to provide a price... That is what I asked for...A price they would sell it for and then I would provide payment/shipping info once I saw the price. Doesn't seem like they liked that idea.

Just for gee wiz though I would first stop by the Zone for codes..... Only because it is free and it may tell us something. You know. Something like."How many times are you going to check me. Go buy the BCM. That is what is broke." Boy, wouldn't that be a great code!

Hope you feel better!

Bob
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Sunday, November 23rd, 2008 AT 11:16 PM
Tiny
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No insult detected.

Hi Bob.

Not to worry about ensuring even a most obvious step is taken. I followed the isntructions to the "T". Car was even in "Park" which I don't normally do. I went back and reread the instructions to make sure I had the right buttons. No dice. No self test.

Would the Auto Zone have a full on scan tool or just a DRB II? There's one not too far away, I'll give them a call and see what they say.

With all that's going on in the BCM, you'd think it would hava its own self test feature. Otherwise, you're chasing down issues on the basis of something it controls not working. Not the way I'd design it.

I'll let you know what I get at "The Zone".

Bill
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Monday, November 24th, 2008 AT 12:20 PM
Tiny
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Hello -

Thanks for the update Bill - hope you get feeling better... Hope you and your family have great Thanksgiving...
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Wednesday, November 26th, 2008 AT 7:32 PM
Tiny
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Hi Bob.

Well, I waited too long.

I called the local Auto Zone and their code reader had to be sent in for repair. I then tried Pep Boys and they're not open after 6 on Sundays. I'll have to stop by one evening after work this week.

Still working on Thanksgiving leftovers and have already started getting the Christmas decorations up. I hope you and your family enjoyed a nice Thanksgiving.

More as soon as I can find a place with a code scanner.

Take care,
Bill
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Sunday, November 30th, 2008 AT 8:57 PM
Tiny
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Bill!

Great to hear from you. No problem on the scanner. I don't know... Your earlier idea still sounds the best... You know... Break in..... My thought... Once caught we could put the scanner for use on the web here for money..... The money we make we could get you out on bail..... Who knows... With enough use we may even be able to get you a good lawyer... Okay, probably not the best idea.... :)

Yes... Still working on left over's... Although Thanksgiving started off early working with my father-in-law. They live about 25 miles south of us. We were able to get the header slip clutch for the combine from the machinist first thing and got that installed on the combine.

So while I was on one end of the field cutting beans he was on the other planting winter wheat. After several passes up and down the field...I got an alternator light... Pulled out and took off to the edge of the field to try to unload what I had... Got to the semi... Got the load off and as I spun around I got a warning horn and the temp gauge shot up..... So shut it down.

As the antifreeze bubbled in the overflow and some spraying out like Old Faithful...I thought wow... Now that looks warm... So I scampered up and started opening all the doors and panels to try to cool the thing a little..... Broke both alternator/water pump belts... Not easy... But did. So, the rest of the family (about 15 or so from out of town and some local) were up at the farm so we headed up to eat.

Weather came in so done for that day... Friday picked up parts..... Did some other things but weather kept us out of the field.

Yesterday... Weather. Today... Started putting the belts on... Got the AC loose and the belt off... Went to the other side... Disconnected the alternator and as I was looping the first belt to the crankshaft pulley... It flopped around all over. Well there you go. The pulley sheared off the crankshaft which was why the belts threw and the fan chewed them up.

So..... Down for parts until tomorrow. But I have to go back to work tomorrow so he may need to call out the International folks to come out to the field to assist on this... So will be hit and miss on that... Otherwise... Great time with family and friends.

Yes Christmas... Staring to put that up too.....

Yes, please let me know what you find out.....I in this with you until the end.....

Are you feeling much better? Sure hope so.

Looking forward to hearing from you.....

Bob
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Sunday, November 30th, 2008 AT 9:23 PM
Tiny
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Well, you can scratch Auto Zone.

As it turns out, Pep Boys sued Auto Zone for providing a free reading of codes and was able to get the court to order them to stop. I don't have a clue why Pep Boys could prevail in a suit like this, but this is what the guy at Auto Zone told me. Bummer!

Speaking of courts. Spent the last day and a half sitting through a jury selection process. I was almost selected but was dismissed very close to the end and now am at work. Good thing, it would have been a two week trial. Looked at the guy's record when I got to work. Real bad actor. Constantly in trouble with the law for the last ten years. This one will land him in jail for many years the way I see it.

Sounds like your weekend wasn't as calm and relaxing as mine was. But, it also sounds like they had the right guy on scene at the time. Is your father-in-law's combine made by Chrysler by any chance? No. Take that back. Your troubles were out in the open and in your face. Odd that the crankshaft pulley broke like that.

My next option is a coin toss. Take it back to the dealer and demand they use the scan tool to analyze the system or go to Pep Boys and pay them the $$ to check it out.

Another hint. Last night I went to the garage and the car's interior lights were still on. They should have timed out and turned out when I got out of the car an hour or two earlier. Got into the car and closed the door and the lights went out. BCM I think.

Also, another strange thing happened the other day. Driving along and rolled up the two front windows. The two map lights came on. Went off as soon as I released the window switches. Applied pressure to the switches - lights on; pressure off - lights off. Repeated this several times. I then scrolled the panel light dimmer down a notch or two and it all went back to normal. This kinda goes along with the map lights occasionally coming on when the A/C compressor kicks on. Sounds like it's possessed, huh?

If I hadn't already checked the ground from the BCM to the panel and the chassis I'd swear it sounds like a floating ground issue. My intuition is still telling me a BCM is the culprit. Without getting a scan tool on it, it's just an educated guess since most of the issues are intermittent. The one thing that is a constant right now is the refusal of the ATC to go into the self test mode. Again, I think that's a BCM issue.

I'm going to call the guy back that supplies the refurbished ATCs and ask him about the ATC not going into self test and see what he thinks.

I'll let you know what he thinks and whether or not I've been able to get it in for a scanner run.

Take care, Sir!

Bill
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Tuesday, December 2nd, 2008 AT 4:27 PM
Tiny
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Bill

Well that's crazy... It hasn't caught up here yet... As a matter of fact several of the Pep Boys went out of business here... So maybe we won't have to worry about that.

Wow... Court... You are lucky to get out of that...

That's funny... No not made by Chrysler... Well, maybe the crankshaft pulley is..... Come to fine out after only $360..... The pulley has an extremely hard piece of rubber mounted to it that is between the pulley and balancer... It absorbs shock/vibration etc...I guess that's a good idea since you are bouncing around so much...

Understand about the coin toss.....I get to the point there you say... Wow...I spend $80 on the check... That could have been $80 toward the part..... But then what if it isn't the part...I go back and forth at times.........

Things do point to the BCM and Lord knows you have checked out a ton of items.....

Hey... Before you do that scanner run..... Go back to the court and ask to check the guy out for an evening......... You'd bring him back..... He would get a good meal....... And you would have a scanner....... Sounds like a win win.....

Thanks for the update Bill

Bob
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Tuesday, December 2nd, 2008 AT 9:15 PM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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No luck from the ATC guy.

Hi Bob.

I had an email discussion going yesterday with the guy in Connecticut that refurbishes the ATC modules and he was stumped. His belief was that if the ATC didn't go into the self-test that it was most likely the ATC. My understanding of the system may not be as good as his, but it seems to me that if the ATC is able to control the position of all of the doors through the use of the buttons on the front of the ATC module, and those commands are actually received, processed, monitored, and controlled by the BCM, then it would make sense that the BCM would receive the button command for the self-test, initiate the test sequence, cause the doors to move and be calibrated (secondary purpose of the self-test), and then report any anomalies it sees via the display on the ATC head as codes.

Am I missing something here?

His only suggestion was to get a used BCM from a junk yard and give it a try. I've got the dealer service writer looking into a source he's heard about for a new or refurbished BCM that mechanics have used that he's worked with. It would still require taking the car to the dealer to have the BCM programmed and that would cost an additional $80 or so.

New subject. The last several posts you've posted here have not generated email notifications so that I know you've uploaded a post. That has caused a several day delay in my responses a couple of times. Lately, I do a regular visual check to see if anything new has been posted. Have I overloaded the system with my whining?

Take care, Sir.

Bill
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Thursday, December 4th, 2008 AT 11:02 AM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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YAHOO!

Well, today was a productive day. Not for my company, but I made all kinds of inroads on getting this resolved.

1 - Got a call from my guy at the dealer. No luck getting a BCM locally. Told me that the P/N had gone through several updates, though and I got the new number. He also told me that it would cost $345 for a new one and $35 to program a new one at the dealership.

2 - Being the frugal type that I am, I immediately went online and found all kinds of sources for a replacement using the new number. I also located a place that offers to listen to your sad story for a small fee and then tell you, "That sounds about right." I only did that as a sanity check to see if I was out in left field anywhere.

3 - I called up the source for the replacement BCM and the nice man is going to ship me TWO of them "just in case one has mileage that's closer to my car"! All I have to do is ship him back the two I don't need when I'm all done.

The gent explained that a common problem with the electronic modules is that a capacitor will leak getting the electrolyte on the board. This creates low resistance paths between circuits and causes "phantom" problems such as I've seen. Sometimes a component will go up in smoke and do the same thing. When I take mine out, I'll see if it's possible to open it up without damaging it to see if there are any obvious physical problems with it.

I'm supposed to have the replacements in about 3 - 4 days so I have to sit on my hands until then.

Bob. I want to thank you one more time for your patience and willingness to hang in there with me on this bear of a problem. As soon as I have the replacement in, I'll be sure to drop a line and let you know how it's doing.

Take care, Sir!

Bill
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Thursday, December 4th, 2008 AT 5:40 PM
Tiny
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Bill!

Glad to hear from you. You have sent me a couple of posts before I could respond. Answering the first. Well, not sure why the delay in the posts coming back and forth and why you have not received the email. . ...I know we are having a little problem with the system as even some of the things we send to include to each other (the other moderators) are not sending or receiving correctly.

This is definitely not whining that's for sure. . ...I am sure this is outstanding information for everyone that has problems with these types of systems. . ...

I will contact the web monitor to see if there is a problem, limit, etc.

If you send me something and don't hear from me. . ..the problem may be a delay in the system. . .. . .

If you want, go into the PM area as shown below and you can send me a private message not open to the public to read. Send me your email address and I will send you mine. That way if there is a delay or I don't hear from you in a certain time either you or I can email off the post that something has been sent and then go back to the post for any information so others can continue to learn from this.


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/248015_Picture11_7.jpg



Great website and information! That is great news. . ...definitely let me know not only if this works, the condition of yours but also if the website for ourecms works well so we can refer others there.

Thanks again for the info Bill

Bob
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Thursday, December 4th, 2008 AT 6:19 PM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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YAHOO! Two "new" BCMs have arrived!

Well, Bob. The tension mounts. Tomorrow after work, I'll be installing the new BCMs. I'll check the mileage indication for each and then make my choice for the one closest to mine. Since they are both of a newer "vintage" I suspect they'll both be relatively low compared to my 132K. As soon as I've tried them and find out whether the car starts or not, then I'll report what I have.

If the car doesn't start, I'll stick the old one in, drive to work and position the car so a tow truck from AAA can get it and have it towed to the dealer for reprogramming. If it does start and runs okay, then I'll just drive it to the dealer myself and go from there.

Keep your fingers crossed, my friend. I'm going strictly on intuition and what seems most logical as far as indications and troubleshooting so far.

If you hear a scream in the middle of the night tomorrow, that will probably be me if it allows the car to start, but none of the problems go away. That would only mean there are serious wiring problems which this guy is not likely to spend time tracking down any time soon.

For my sanity and peace of mind, I'm praying it will work.

To be continued.

BG
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Thursday, December 11th, 2008 AT 12:23 AM
Tiny
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Bill!

Glad to hear from you... They arrived.....I think I am excited as you are!

Okay..... Tomorrows the big night.......I am making popcorn... Getting some tea and standing by for the news!

There are thousands reading the post and waiting for the news Bill. So don't keep us waiting

I am saying a prayer this is gonna do it!

Bob
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Thursday, December 11th, 2008 AT 8:28 PM
Tiny
LGB BILL
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Bummed.

Sorry to say your popcorn is going to stale waiting for the news. Not because the BCMs don't work but because I had to work late tonight and can't do it. :-P

I'm guessing either tomorrow ( Fri ) night or sometime this weekend. As soon as I get to dig in to it, I'll let you know what gives.

B
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Thursday, December 11th, 2008 AT 11:22 PM
Tiny
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Bill

No problem....... Believe me my popcorn isn't going stale.....I am only making more!

I am still pretty excited to see what happens. Also, thanks again for that web site - the other folks will also benefit from that.

Bob
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Friday, December 12th, 2008 AT 4:54 PM

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