84 CJ7 258, now-- no click at solenoid, no crank. (Was hard start and engne cut out when warm)

Tiny
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When are you finding that 2.8 volts, with the engine running or with it off and the ignition switch on?

I'm trying to picture the wiring diagram and everything I've seen before has battery voltage, (lets say 14.0 volts) applied to the resistor, then current flows through it to the coil primary where the voltage will be lower, through the coil where we would like it to be real low, then through the module which takes the place of the breaker points. It's a switch.

If you're measuring that 2.8 volts right after the resistor where it connects to the coil, that may be fine. 2.8 volts across the coil doesn't sound like much, and not enough to build a nice magnetic field, but that isn't done with voltage. It's done with current. Doing the math, if you have 14.0 volts on one side of the resistor and 2.8 volts on the other, that's a drop of 11.2 volts. Using Ohm's Law, current equals voltage divided by resistance. 11.2 volts divided by 1.1 ohms equals 10.18 amps. That's a pile. Knowing the current we could also calculate the resistance of the coil and module but that is irrelevant. If that was a breaker point system the contacts would be red hot.

If you're measuring that 2.8 volts on the control side of the coil that connects to the module, not where the resistor is connected, we'd have to include the coil's resistance which is typically about 1 ohm or a little less. Lets say the resistor and coil together totaled 2.0 ohms. Current would be 11.2 volts divided by 2 ohms equals 5.6 amps. That's still a real lot but not quite as dramatic as before.

Next, you have to remember that if that 2.8 volts was measured with the engine running, the module turns the current flow off when it wants a spark to occur. That 0.0 amps gives the resistor, coil and module time to cool down until the module turns back on to build the magnetic field for the next spark. If that 2.8 volts was with the engine not running, the module is keeping the current flowing and it's waiting for a signal to turn the current off and make a spark. I could see 2.8 volts at the module but the 5 amps is a lot to expect from that sad little switching transistor in it. Current makes heat and transistors hate heat.

I wish I had the exact diagram to look at. Without one is like trying to drive cross-country with no road map.
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Tuesday, May 7th, 2013 AT 7:59 PM
Tiny
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THe 2, 8 VDC was at the end of the resistance wire with power coming from the ignition switch.

OK. THink I got it fixed. I think the straight 10GA wire to the Replacement TFI coil fried it, AND the new ignition module! I had the "New" Module tested and it failed.

Also when it died last time, the coil was so hot you could fry an egg on it. SOOOO. Here's what I found out

I installed the NAPA #ICR 22 Resistance wire, swapped in a NEW, TESTED, Duraspark 2 blue grommet module, using the installed "New" TFI coil. Crank. No start. No reference pulse to TBI.

I have two brand new Accell SUper coils that use ford style TFI plug. I un hooked the TFI coil was hooked up the Accell super coil (E-coil TYpe). FIred right up and ran like a top.

So as above, I'd have to say RUN THE RESISTANCE WIRE BY ALL MEANS! Running without --fried my NEW TFI coil and NEW Duraspark module within 15 Minutes!

From the pics, my engine bay on the passenger side is pretty jam packed. It was a bear to find a suitable space to mount that Accell Super E-coil. It's BIG and has ample cooling fins. It didn't even get WARM with the engine running!

I mounted it on the inside of the passenger side fender next to the Jacobs Prostreet, and above the Jacobs Ultra COil.

Now then. Time for a test drive to see how she runs.
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Wednesday, May 8th, 2013 AT 12:54 PM
Tiny
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TWO MONGO COILS. LOL BUT, I like the Jacobs prostreet, and it needs a secondary trigger off the Primary ignition system to trigger it. So be it! If the Jacobs craps out I can run the primary ignition system on it's own. All it have to due is decrease the gap to.045 (Jacobs run a wide gap.054-55 to work properly.

Seems like overkill, but it really works well. Winks
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Wednesday, May 8th, 2013 AT 1:13 PM
Tiny
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I have my fingers crossed. Do you still have the same 2.8 volts with the engine running?
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Wednesday, May 8th, 2013 AT 10:20 PM
Tiny
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Welll--- THought I had it all fixed with the New Coil, resistance wire, and Ignition module. Started right up, so I let it idle for 20 minutes, THEN drove about six miles with it and all seemed great.

Soooo. The next day, I take it into town (8 miles), hit the bank to make a deposit, and as I'm coiming out of the parking lot. The engine cuts out. AIEEEEEEE!

Got spark definitely! TBI unit not spraying any fuel. Pump is good, everything now is NEW, GRRRRR to me it points to loss of reference pulse.

So, since it died right across the street from Autozone. Lol, I puled the ignition module and had them test it. The module is fine CRAP. So by now the jeep is cold again. Reinstalled the Module. Cranks once, twice. No fuel, cranked a third time. The TBI starts spraying fuel and she starts up. Needless to say, I drive straight home!

I pulled into the drive way and shut it down. I immediately tried to restart, and OF COURSE, start.

SInce the Jacobs pro-street ignition triggers off the primary ignition system, I temporarily swapped the coil wire back to the primary ignition. Still no start.

Hmmm then I recalled Years ago I'd had an issue with Jacobs "secondary trigger" going bad. I had a spare secondary trigger, sooooo I swapped it in. STILL no start.

OK Let jeep kool down fore three hours. Cranked it once. Twice, no start. On the third try, it started up albeit slowly.

Let it warm up. THe engine seemed to be fine. By then it was 10PM and I was done with it for the day.

My next step is to replace the Duraspark box with an External GM HEI ignition module and see what happens.

I have no freaking idea what's causing this. Everything ing has been replaced in the ignition and TBI system INCLUDING the ECM and ignition modules. The Wiring Shoots good. ARGHHHHHH
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Saturday, May 11th, 2013 AT 3:35 PM
Tiny
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GUYS. I think I just figured it out!

Almost 20 years ago I had a no start/ cut out issue on this jeep. (Before the TBI was installed) Turned out to be a malfunctioning Factory Tachometer.

The Jeep factory tach works off the Positive side of the coil-- NOT the negative as most other aftermarket tachometers do. In fact, powers runs from the ignition switch THROUGH the tachometer and out to the coil. It's wired in series with the coil. If your factory tach starts going bad, it WILL cause a host of ignition issues.

Damn! I had forgotten all about this. You can bypass the tach by unplugging the red power wires that run TO and from it (and on to the coil and Ignition module) and then plugging the two together. A CJ without factory tach has these plugged together, instead of two and from the Tach.

I have noticed the tach has been somewhat erratic as far as the needle operation. Seems to bounce around a bit.

THis takes like 5 minutes to unhook and reconnect.

NONE of the factory manuals mention this. (Tat the OEM tach is in fact wired in series)! Look at the diragrams and pics and you'll see it.

I'll let you know shortly!
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Monday, May 13th, 2013 AT 11:58 AM
Tiny
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On an 80-86 CJ, the Factory tachometer is wired in SERIES from the ignition switch to the tach BEFORE the coil. IN fact if you disconnect the 13A and 13B connectors from the tach plugs, the Jeep won’t start-- NO power will go to the coil!

IF you connect 13A and 13B together to bypass the tach, the coil is powered and it starts right up.

So the Jeep factory tach is indeed triggered off the positive side of the coil, AND, is wired in series. If you have a bad tach, it can cause you all kinds of grief, and lead to madness! LOL

The factory Jeep Schematics do NOT show this, unless you look VERY closely. In fact, you may have to do as I did and look at Pre 1980 CJ diagrams. (Much is common with the newer models) Shoot the wires, you’ll see I’m telling the God’s truth here.

If you look at the Early CJ “General wiring” and trace the red power wires coming out of the ignition switch you will see the SAME numbered connectors. IT says “to tach”, but doesn’t SHOW the tach.

Hope this helps someone else!
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Monday, May 13th, 2013 AT 1:46 PM
Tiny
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I'VE NEVER RUN INTO THAT ISSUE, I RECKON I SELDOM SEE A FACTORY TACH, AND NEVER ONE MESSED UP CAUSING THIS

......BUT I DID VERIFY THE SITUATION WITH A FACTORY MANUAL

OK HERE'S THE DEAL---MORRIS 4X4 HAS SQUARED US AWAY...........I HAVE THE PAPER ONE FOR A '79. JUST TO KEEP "ME" IN DEMAND, I USUALLY SHARE THIS INFO AS A GOING AWAY PRESENT TO ANOTHER JEEP GUY

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/mitchell1eautorepair-car-repair-manuals

I HOPE THIS MIGHT HELP YOU.....IT SURELY WILL AID ME

THE MEDIC
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Monday, May 13th, 2013 AT 7:07 PM
Tiny
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I will be very happy if this solves the problem but I'm going to throw a clinker in the works. Actually, it's just to realign your thinking to avoid some confusion. Early '70s Fords also ran the tach in series with the ignition coil. You have that right but it is not triggered from the positive coil terminal. That is the logical assumption since one of the tach wires goes to it, but you will find steady battery voltage there, as it should be, not voltage pulses. The clinker is the tach is not triggering off voltage pulses like aftermarket add-on units do. It's triggering off voltage pulses that RESULT from the current pulses through that circuit. The ignition coil primary current flows through the primary side of a small transformer inside the tach. Its resistance is so low it acts like another ignition resistor so for all practical purposes it's not even there as far as the ignition coil and module are concerned. Still, when the module is turned on and current is flowing through the primary winding in that transformer, the current pulse generates a voltage pulse in the secondary winding just like in any transformer for a cordless phone charger and stuff like that. THAT'S the voltage pulses the tach triggers on. Since it is indeed wired in series with the ignition coil, it could just as easily be placed between the coil's negative terminal and the ignition module and it would work just as well.

There's two reasons to have the tach come first in the circuit. One is that the 12 volts coming from the ignition switch is already right in that same area so only one wire has to run through the firewall to the coil instead of two wires. Second, people who know how tachs work could be confused if they found it tied to the negative coil terminal. They would incorrectly assume the other tach wire was supposed to go to ground like the aftermarket units do. When they see it tied to the positive side that they know has steady battery voltage, they will figure out this is wired differently and works differently.

My cousin had a '73 Mustang, (currently owned by Jamie McMurray's pit crew chief), that had this problem. Being a tv repairman like me, he unwound that transformer and rewound it with new wire. That solved his intermittent no-start problems. After all these years I would be more inclined to suspect bad solder connections on the terminals of your transformer or corroded plug-in terminals.
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Tuesday, May 14th, 2013 AT 1:35 AM
Tiny
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THe tach was INDEED part of the issue. If it's in the ignition circuit, the tach needle starts bouncing in 300 RPM increments. When it does that you can hear the engine miss, eventually it will be enough to stall the engine.

When I remove it from the ignition circuit, the engine runs smooth.

Now then. After I figured this out. I let it idle for 20 minutes. At which point the engine cut out as if I'd turned the ignition switch off.

Sooooo. I ohmed the pick up in the Cardone reman distributor, and the readings were ALL OVER THE PLACE.

Some times 460 ohms, sometimes 850, sometimes 1250- 1400, once 2250, and several times infinite or open circuit!
I pulled the distributor to inspect. THe wiring to the pickup was fine. The pick up looked like the original OEM mpickup. It merely had a new harness spliced into it.

So. Got a NEW pickup and harness assembly. That checked great on the bench with a steady 460 ohm reading after numerous tests. Swapped it into the distributor, and reinstalled same. Engine fired right up after 3 revs-- good reference pulse to TBI, engine runs smooth. I Let it idle for 30 minutes, revving the engine from time to time. Smooth operation no bobbles.

So, this procedure found a host of issues-- NOT just one. Bad resistance wire, bad magnetic pick up (in a "new" reman distributo)r, and a bad factory tach. IN the process of elimination, everything Spark plug, Coil, sensor, module, relay, or ECM, has been replaced.

Good thing that it's relatively inexpensive to make that happen. I figure less than $500 into that. Not inconsequential, but a damn sight cheaper than a NEW Jeep would cost to do the same on! Lol
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Friday, May 17th, 2013 AT 10:58 AM
Tiny
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Well then! This issue is finally resolved. Although other issues cropped up during the troubleshooting, the final culprit for cutting out randomly after the engine warmed up was.

A Fusible link!

It would lose conductivity intermittently when it warmed up, and when cold, acted as if it was a solid wire. Go figure! The link in question was connected to the external Jeep (Ford style) starter solenoid. It was a 14 guage wire fusible link.

Since I replaced it, the Jeep has been running perfectly.
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Thursday, August 1st, 2013 AT 7:40 PM
Tiny
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GOOD DEAL!

I'VE NEVER COME ACROSS AN INTERMITTENT FUSIBLE LINK. EITHER THEY WORKED OR THEY WERE DEAD. GENERALLY WITH A BAD ONE, THE INSULATION LOOKS "BUBBLED" OR IF YOU TUG ON IT, THE INSULATION STRETCHES OUT LIKE A RUBBER BAND

I RECKON I'LL SLING THAT INFO OUT NEXT TIME.I DO HAVE A POST WITH PICS, WHERE I EXPLAIN THE FUSIBLE LINKS

MAKE SURE YOU REPLACE IT WITH THE SAME/ CORRECT LINK

THE MEDIC
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Thursday, August 1st, 2013 AT 8:01 PM
Tiny
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CJ can you please! Send me the exact location of the ( Crankshaft Position Sensor ) on a 1996 Hyundia Accent SOHC 1.5 liter. I goggle it but nothing seems to come up thank you my friend

Send it in here or catafina the user-thank you again
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Tuesday, January 23rd, 2018 AT 2:57 PM
Tiny
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You need to start a new question specific to your car. This question relates to a Jeep.

Unlike other sites where anyone can post a reply, here it becomes a private conversation between you and one or two experts. This shows up on our list of questions that have received replies already. As such, the other experts won't butt in or read your addition, so they won't have a chance to reply. That won't get you the help you need.

When you post your question, be sure to state why you want to find a part. Way too often people are going after a part that can't possibly cause the problem they're trying to solve, and we can make better suggestions based on the symptoms. Also, please be sure to list the engine size, mileage, and transmission type. We need the engine size to find the right wiring diagrams and when looking up parts locations. We use the mileage when making judgments as to the best suspects.
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Tuesday, January 23rd, 2018 AT 3:39 PM

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