PCM needs replacement?

Tiny
PLANETMITCH
  • MEMBER
  • 2007 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 110,000 MILES
The mechanic has replaced the EGR for something like $600 because the check engine light was on and they said that was the error code and we continue to have a situation where the check engine light comes on. The mechanic checked the wiring and other things and has had the car for days. And today says that it's not the wiring but the PCM needs to be replaced to the tune of $900

He says that we can not do the replacement and the light will remain on - it isn't a "must do" replacement but then we won't know if there's some other warning. We can put it off if we want he says.

I hate to spend $900 if I don't have to. What do you think I should do? He's respected in our small town so I'm not worried he's trying to scam me, but I sure don't want to spend the money right now
Tuesday, March 3rd, 2015 AT 9:06 AM

22 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Here is the location and instructions on how to replace the PCM. Check out the diagrams (Below). Please let us know if you need anything else to get the problem fixed.
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Tuesday, March 3rd, 2015 AT 10:46 AM
Tiny
PLANETMITCH
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My apologies. Just looked again at prior receipt. EGR was replaced under warranty - it was $600 for the fuel pump

The car is running normally as far as I can tell. We bought it a year ago used. It has had some trouble with starting in very cold weather with 1/4 of a tank when we park on a hill, but otherwise things are good.

Sorry, but off hand I don't have any clue what the engine size is nor did I ask what the exact error codes are.
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Tuesday, March 3rd, 2015 AT 11:17 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Okay, that make sense. By any chance, do you have a receipt that may list the engine size and trouble codes that are found? Without that info, I'm really at a loss. The trouble code, which will be a letter P followed by four numbers (ie. P0420) will let me know what components are affected. With that and the engine size, I can determine what should be checked or if there is a common problem that I know of from experience.

If the vehicle is running good, chances are the code is going to be related to an emissions component. That could be a multitude of things. However, often times with these vehicles, the problems are related to either a poor ground, a broken wire, poor connection, and many times I have seen the wiring harnesses wear through causing a short. The truth of the matter is that the PCM is usually the last thing that is the actual problem. Could it be? Yes, but before I jump to that conclusion, I want to make sure all avenues are checked and reviewed.

As far as the starting below a 1/4 tank of fuel, that isn't too uncommon. The fuel pump location is basically centered in the tank. If you are on a steep enough incline, the pump can't reach enough of the fuel to provide the start-up pressure needed. My guess is when the vehicle was on a more level surface, the problem went away.

Check your invoice and let me know if anything it there. If you don't have one, see if the dealer you went to will provide that information to you.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Joe
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Wednesday, March 4th, 2015 AT 5:17 AM
Tiny
KEITHJMC
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
  • 2006 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
Where is the ecu located?
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:05 AM (Merged)
Tiny
DOCFIXIT
  • MECHANIC
  • 18,828 POSTS
PCM located left fender well see Check out the diagrams (Below). Please let us know if you need anything else to get the problem fixed.diagram


https://www.2carpros.com/forum/automotive_pictures/198357_Graphic_621.jpg

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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:05 AM (Merged)
Tiny
NUGENTNATION
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  • 2 POSTS
  • 2005 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
  • 3.8L
  • V8
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 17,000 MILES
I put in a reprogrammed PCM which fixed my problem of misfiring however it caused new problems. The heater/ac blower stopped working, the power windows stopped working, the radio and the wipers only work with the key in the on position if the car is running or it is in the acc position they do not work. I checked the fuse they all seem OK. I was told by the PCM seller to disconnect the battery cables and hold them together for 10 minutes which did not fix the problem. This is the second PCM I put in, the first PCM did the exact same thing they are sending another PCM but I am afraid it will do the same as the first two.
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:06 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
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Pcm or any module for that matter have to be programmed to your car or vin number Obviously the guy that sold it to you didn't know what he was talking about. Any garage with a pro model scanner can fix this for you.
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:06 AM (Merged)
Tiny
NUGENTNATION
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The PCM was programmed to my VIN. The PCM fixed the problem that was diagnosed but this dashboard issue started.
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:06 AM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
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The other thing it can be is you need to have it scanned again to see if the intergrated power module is causing the problem. It does however seem to be intermittent by your diagnosis so it may not show anything. The windows are hooked ot the integrated power module as that is where it gets it s power from same with heater and radio.
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:06 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CABBAGEHEAD
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  • 1 POST
  • 2002 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
  • 144,000 MILES
I think my ECM is failing. The symtoms are as follows: the air bag light sometimes comes on. The ABS light sometimes comes on. When driving if I use anything such as the radio or wipers or the fan for ac the instrument will drop out for a second. I checket the voltage to the battery with the van running I get 14.3 VDC. With the ignition off I see 10.6 VDC. Sometimes when I start the car the gauges will peg to the right and come back to normal.
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:06 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
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Step one is have the battery tested. 10.6 volts indicates a shorted cell. A fully charged battery will read 12.6 volts. A good but discharged battery will read closer to 12.0 volts.
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:06 AM (Merged)
Tiny
RBARNETT2000
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  • 2001 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 125,000 MILES
My check engine light came on and a diagnostic test pointed to a PCM "going bad". My driver's side window and blinkers only work part of the time. The van will not pass emissions with a P0601-Internal Control Module Memory Check Sum Error. What part do I need exactly and can I get it from a salvage yard? The dealers charge $750 just for the part, not including labor. A junk yard will sell the part for $100, but is it the right part and does it need to be programmed? How can I get this fixed for a reasonable price?
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:07 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi: The PCM is the brain of basically every electronic device in your car. Replacing a PCM is essentially a matter of changing boxes. Their location can be a problem on some vehicles because the PCM is often buried under or behind other components in the instrument panel, climate control system or console. Some are located under a seat and require removing the seat.

Regardless of its location, one thing you should do prior to removing the old PCM and installing the replacement PCM is disconnect the battery.

Once the PCM has been installed and reconnected, the battery can be reconnected. However the job is not done yet. Many PCMs have to undergo a "relearning" procedure after they have been installed or if they have been disconnected from the battery. On some vehicles, a scanner may be needed to do this.

On some applications, there may be a specific relearn procedure for establishing the base idle speed and other operating parameters. On others, it may be necessary to take the vehicle for a short test drive so the computer can adjust itself. The exact requirements will be spelled out in the vehicle service manual. The best advice here is to test drive the vehicle after the powertrain control module has been installed. A short drive cycle that includes going over 35 mph will usually reset most PCMs so they will operate properly.

The powertrain control module will also continue to learn and make small adjustments to the fuel mixture and other functions over time as the vehicle accumulates miles. If the PCM also controls the transmission, it may take awhile to relearn the driver's habits so the transmission may not shift exactly the same as before until this occurs.

Finally, if the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) or Check Engine light comes back on after the PCM has been replaced, it means there is still a problem with the vehicle. The fault is probably NOT the PCM, unless the fault code is for an internal PCM fault. The presence of fault codes means additional diagnosis is required to identify and repair the fault. And until the real problem is found and fixed, the PCM may not function normally.

If the engine control system is not going into closed loop, chances are the coolant sensor or oxygen sensor may not be working properly. If spark timing seems to be over advanced or retarded, the problem may be a faulty MAP sensor, misadjusted throttle position sensor or overly sensitive knock sensor. And if nothing seems to work right, low charging voltage due to a weak alternator or poor battery connections may be the fault.

As far as identifying the correct one for your van, the OEM part number on the PCM must be that same as the one on yours. Remember, the unit may look the same, be the same size but be different. It must have the exact OEM part number! If you get a different one, the vehicle may run, but it won't run right. The transmission may shift differently.

Good luck. I hope this helped.
Joe
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:07 AM (Merged)
Tiny
PTANGZOOT
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
  • 2001 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 127,000 MILES
I have a 2001 Town and country and have been having an intermittent surgeing or fluttering (RPM bounce---500 or so RPM at speed)of the engine for a while, no check engine light activated when this was occuring. I have changed the plugs and wires, ignition module, checked the air filter and replaced it, and fuel filter (not the pump. More later).

Friday the car began struggling to keep running while stopped. If I kept the pedal down it ran. Check engine light was on.

I thought it was the fuel pump so I had the car towed to my mechanic, he brought it in and hooked up a pressure gauge and let me know that the pump was putting out plenty of pressure. The codes from the ECM were P0107 and P0108. I was able to find a MAP sensor and replaced it. Check engine lightwent out and we both thoughtthat we might be OK. He did mention that my ECM may be going out since the P0107 and P0108 were both active.

Drove the car home without a problem. Unfortunatly the next morning we were right back where we were.

Here are the codes
P0107
P0108
P1478
P1684

107 and 108 are MAP sensor voltage errors, voltage too low and voltage too high. 1478 is a battery temperature sensor voltage error, and 1684 states that the battery has been disconnected within last 50 starts.

Right now I am leaning towards a bad ECM. What do you all think?

Thanks!
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:07 AM (Merged)
Tiny
PTANGZOOT
  • MEMBER
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Also wanted to add the following.

When my mechanic tested the resistance on the input pin from the MAP sensor it came back 0, so the pin has continuity to ground.

Wire harness looks good, no oil in or on it.

Thanks!
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:07 AM (Merged)
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,873 POSTS
You folks need to start new questions specific to your vehicle. The original question was followed with a followup comment. That makes it show up on our list as having received a reply already, so none of the experts are going to see your additions or have a chance to reply. That won't get you the help you need. Unlike other sites where anyone can post a reply, here it becomes a private conversation between two people. When a reply is indicated, the other experts rarely intrude into the conversation unless asked to. They WILL see your new question as waiting for a response.

What I CAN share are a few comments of value that might get you started. Be aware diagnostic fault codes never say to replace a part or that one is bad. They only indicate the circuit or system that needs further diagnosis, or the unacceptable operating condition. When a part is referenced in a fault code, it is only the cause of that code about half of the time. You also have to look for wiring and connector terminal problems. In the original post, codes 107 and 108 can individually be caused by a failed MAP sensor, but when the two opposite codes are set, a cut or grounded wire are much better suspects. Add to that the finding of 0 ohms to ground, although that finding wasn't described clearly, indicates the signal wire to the MAP sensor is shorted to ground. That's why the codes came back after replacing the sensor.

The next concern has to do with the failure of the engine to stay running unless the accelerator is held down. That is real common on Chrysler products after the battery is disconnected, and in fact, a fault code referring to that was listed. The Engine Computer needs to relearn a lot of data after the battery is reconnected. Most of that occurs while you're driving without you even noticing, ... Except for "minimum throttle". Until that is relearned, the Engine Computer will not know when it has to be in control of idle speed. The engine may not start unless the accelerator pedal is held down 1/4", you won't get the nice idle flare-up to 1500 rpm at start-up, and it will tend to stall when coming to a stop.

To meet the conditions for the relearn to take place, drive at highway speed with the engine warmed up, then coast for at least seven seconds without touching the pedals.

To address the original concern, a lot of detail was missing, but the fluttering or surging could describe another real common problem. In fact, I've been living with it on my '94 Grand Voyager because I'm too lazy to fix it. The first detail that was left out is this occurs around 35 to 45 mph. It will not be felt at other speeds. It also only occurs when in third or fourth gears and when cruising at a fairly steady speed, and only once the engine is warmed up. The shudder is caused by using the wrong transmission fluid. At around 40 mph, the torque converter locks up for better fuel mileage, (a Chrysler innovation in the mid '70s). At the lower speeds, it starts with a partial lockup to reduce the potential harshness of the engagement. Instead of the slippage gradually and smoothly changing to locking, total lockup occurs because the lack of special additives causes the clutch to grab too hard, then it pops loose, grabs again, and it continues as a shudder.

To verify if this is what you're feeling, when the problem occurs, hold the accelerator pedal perfectly steady, then lightly tap the brake pedal with your left foot. That is a signal for the torque converter to unlock. It will relock in two or three seconds, but you will feel the shudder stop for those few seconds. You will also feel the engine speed up by 200 rpm, and if you have a tachometer in the instrument cluster, you'll see the speed increase too.

When you post your own question, PLEASE list the engine size, transmission type, and mileage. We need to know the engine size when answering engine running problems and when looking up wiring diagrams. The engines are different and have very different parts and circuits for some of the electrical systems. We make a lot of judgment calls based on the mileage when figuring out the best and least likely suspects to look for.
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:07 AM (Merged)
Tiny
PAUL SCHWARTZ
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 2000 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
  • 3.8L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 155,000 MILES
Can a computer from a 1999 Chrysler Town And Country be used in a 2000 T and C?
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:08 AM (Merged)
Tiny
KASEKENNY
  • MECHANIC
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Hi Paul,

It depends on what computer you are referring too. If you are asking about the PCM, then no. Those are programmed to the VIN and actually require the secret key to be programmed in because they are the back up for the SKIM code.

Here is a brief description that talks about this. Let me know if you were referring to a different computer and we can go from there. Thanks
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:08 AM (Merged)
Tiny
ALSCHOMMER
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  • 1 POST
  • 1999 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY
  • 6 CYL
  • FWD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 200,000 MILES
I have a new battery and had 2 mechanics check the alternator. The car runs for a short time 2-3 miles then the battery is weak and accesories fail and the car eventually quits. Both mechanics said the problem is the ECM (engine computer) could this be possible or is there somthing else I should check.

Thank you.
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:08 AM (Merged)
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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To be sure, try this. I have provided a "How To" for checking for battery draw. What I want you to do is follow the directions listed. If there is a draw on the battery, pull one fuse at a time until the draw stops. At that point, you will know what circuit is drawing the power from the battery. In the early 90's, the voltage regulator was part of the computer, but yours has the regulator built into the alt. Thus, I question the ECU.

Here is the how to:

https://www.2carpros.com/first_things/why_is_my_car_battery_dead_over_night.htm

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Saturday, December 26th, 2020 AT 11:08 AM (Merged)

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