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CRANK POSITION SENSOR?

Tiny
SZALKUSKT
  • MEMBER
  • 2004 MAZDA TRIBUTE
  • 140,000 MILES
Manual transmission crank position sensor tip worn / rubbing. P0351, p0352, p0500, p0320 codes. 140,000 miles. First problem was it would not start but I could hear the fuel pump run and the engine cranked over. I checked for spark and all four plugs had no spark. P0351, p0352, p0500, and p0320 codes displayed.

I have 12 volts at coil. I decided to remove and inspect crank sensor on the transmission side of the engine ( on engine below thermostat housing bolted to engine block) once I removed it I noticed the tip of the sensor was broken, yes, broken. So I knew I found the problem.

I put a new crank sensor in and the car started but ran for 1 hour idling as if a cylinder was not firing. Then it would not start ever again. I removed my brand new replacement sensor to find the tip was rubbed off enough to see the inside metal. I think it could be a possible warped flywheel but I am having trouble finding diagrams of the excitation part of how the crank position sensor works.

i believe the flywheel has holes that excite the sensor. The tribute does move and clutch works for the hour I had it running, so the manual trans does work as well as the clutch
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Friday, July 13th, 2012 AT 8:13 PM

41 Replies

Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Inspect the pluse wheel under the crank shaft sensor for damage coming apart etc.
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Friday, July 13th, 2012 AT 9:07 PM
Tiny
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Ok I thought thats what the next step is. I would like to see an exploded view of what the pulse wheel looks like and possibly the steps to access it. I think I have to pull the transmission away from the engine block. Any ideas also why the wheel might com apart since it is inside of the transmission bellhousing? I think that we might have to realize that there is a VSS p0500 code and maybe with that being said, a VSS issue could have caused the crank shaft position sensor problem I have now. Note: I have not investigated the VSS p0500 code or the VSS sensor at all, can a faulty VSS sensor damage the pulse wheel or a trans problem? Thnank you
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Friday, July 13th, 2012 AT 9:39 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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I dont have a diagram of pluse wheel I have been looking in all the info I have. So the crank shaft position sensor goes into the transmission clutch housing?Looks like it from the diagram I have of that. Is the speed sensor damaged?Its in that general area of the crank sensor.
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Friday, July 13th, 2012 AT 10:09 PM
Tiny
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The CPS is bolted in by one torx head screw. It is bolted on the engine and sticks into a hole so the sensor can protrude into the clutch housing area. I have not removed the VSS yet I will and let you know. What excites the VSS? The same exact pulse wheel? Would really like help with a location of the VSS and also any diagrams you have related to any of this, as I am a visual person. I wonder if we could find the maintenance procedure to replace the pulse wheel that would help me know if its bolted to the crank and how to replace it.
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Friday, July 13th, 2012 AT 10:26 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Heres what I have on the vss its not going to be the same wheel as the crank sensor. Because the crank sensor measure crank speed. The vss measures the differnetial speed in the transmission. Iam trying to find more on the crank sensor wheel there isnt much on it. Use a mirror and flash light to get a look at it thru the hole. If its inside the transmission clutch housing you will have to pull the transmission at some point.
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Friday, July 13th, 2012 AT 10:55 PM
Tiny
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Well, I can tell you that the crankshaft sensor does protrude into the clutch housing but its bolted to the flange of the engine where the trans bell housing bolts to, so we can say it does rely upon interaction with the pulse wheel located in the clutch housing. It is hard to get a mirror and light in there but I will try. I will remove the vss and trans. I will have to remove the trans im sure because the pulse wheel is inside there. I hope there is not too much crank endplay or something. Any info on removing the manual transmission? List of steps please thanks
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Friday, July 13th, 2012 AT 11:18 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Heres how you remove the transmisson check it with a mirror before pulling the transmission.
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Saturday, July 14th, 2012 AT 3:47 AM
Tiny
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Ok I will try very hard to check it with a mirror. It is very hard because the hole for the cranksensor to go in is only the size of between a nickel and a quarter and in a bad location to see. Maybe its possible to sled the trans back a little bit a few inches to actually go and look inside there. I will let you know. I know that when I try to stick a new crankshaft position sensor in the hole the sensor will bottom out on something before it will not mount flush to the mounting surface, so something is wrong enough to not let the sensor seat properly to the mounting area surface. I still have to inspect the VSS and try check with a mirror and let you know. I wish we could see the pulse wheel how it suppose to look in a maintenance manual.
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Sunday, July 15th, 2012 AT 8:12 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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When you get it apart you will be able to insert the crank sensor to see whats happening. Still havent found any diagrams.
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Sunday, July 15th, 2012 AT 9:17 PM
Tiny
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I drained the trans oil and started disconnecting the shifter linkage and clutch cylinder. Any help with the axle removal? Once the steering knuckle is out of the way do the axles have snap rings where I have to pull a little hard or will they just slide out? Help with removing the axles would be nice! I see that there is a thru bolt holding the lower control arm to the ball joint area. What kind of trans gear oil should I put back in later and how much? I looked thru the hole with a mirror and it was really hard to see thru the hole.
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Tuesday, July 17th, 2012 AT 6:03 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Here is the fill level hole.
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Tuesday, July 17th, 2012 AT 8:31 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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If you have the axle nut off and the axle out of the knuckle?Then you just have to remove the axle from the transmission. There is a clip on the end of the axle that helps hold the axle in the transmission. But the axle still justs pops out of the transmission. As far as fluid in the transmission fluid goes it takes 75W-90 the front wheel drive ones hold about 2.85qts.
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Tuesday, July 17th, 2012 AT 8:31 PM
Tiny
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Can you find some sketches of the clutch pressure plate etc installation maybe with the trans removed then I can maybe see what it looks like before I remove the trans and maybe something else might show up there. Thanks for the help with the axles what size nut is the axle nut. Its pretty big
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Tuesday, July 17th, 2012 AT 11:53 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Theres the diagram you requested. As far as what size the axle nut is not sure. Axle nuts are from 30-36mm usually if I had to take a guess I would say 32mm. They rent the axle sockets at auto zone though.
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Wednesday, July 18th, 2012 AT 12:21 AM
Tiny
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Ok I pulled the transmission. I used a 1 1/4 inch socket on the axle nut and it worked fine. After I pulled the trans I could see the pressure plate and the clutch and still not able to see the crank sensor. It looked exatly like the picture above. I took the clutch and pressure plate off then I removed the flywheel because I still could not see anything so once I removed the flywheel I can see now that the flywheel has holes drilled all around the circumfrence if it on the engine side of the flywheel. And I saw that the crank sensor was rubbing directly on the flywheel where it is supposed to just barely get close to it in order to function (gap).I will try to upload photos tomorrow.I am thinking maybe the engine crankshaft has endplay.I am not sure. I do know the crank sensor when it is installed touched the flywheel.
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Monday, July 23rd, 2012 AT 9:08 AM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Sounds like you could have worn crank shaft main bearings. With the fly wheel back on take a pry bar between the fly wheel and engine block. Gently pry againist the block and see if there is play in the crank. Also if you can I wouls like to see pics.
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Monday, July 23rd, 2012 AT 5:31 PM
Tiny
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I put the flywheel back on and pryed on it and there was play, a substantial amount between 1/4 to 1/2 inch play. Have to examin how the crank main bearings are.
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Tuesday, July 24th, 2012 AT 9:40 AM
Tiny
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More photos
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Tuesday, July 24th, 2012 AT 4:17 PM
Tiny
SATURNTECH9
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Now we know why your sensor is getting torn up the main/thrust bearings are worn allowing the crank shaft to walk back and fourth. They wear faster in manual transmissions from what I have seen. But I wouldnt think it would happen so soon in your case you only have a 140,000 miles.
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Tuesday, July 24th, 2012 AT 4:33 PM
Tiny
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Is it possible to change the thrust bearing in the car? Maybe drop the oil pan and go in there and do some surgery?
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Tuesday, July 24th, 2012 AT 5:52 PM

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