No spark

Tiny
AUSTING443
  • MEMBER
  • 2001 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX
  • 3.8L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 134,000 MILES
Hello, my car recently will not crank and from doing self tests I found it was a no spark issue.

I replaced the crankshaft position sensor (located underneath the right wheel behind the harmonic balance) and still no spark.

I then moved onto replacing the ICM, I have tested and replaced the ICM twice and still have no spark.

I then tested the wires between the CPS and the ICM and they all tested out fine.

I tested the battery and found it was still good. Voltage was being sent to both the CPS and the ICM, but yet no spark.

I then moved onto the PCM, I put a working PCM/ECU and the car still had no spark issue when trying to crank.

When I would do a spark test, I would notice that I would receive a single spark when I turn my ignition switch from "off" to "on" position. When I would try to crank, there would be no spark. Also, when I would turn the Ignition switch from "off" to "on", there would be a single spark also like when turning it on.

I am not entirely sure what may be my issue, I believe there may be a possible wiring issue in my ignition switch, but I wanted to ask here just to make sure before I start taking apart the covers to get to the switch.

Thank you for answering !
Thursday, November 16th, 2017 AT 2:50 PM

3 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,916 POSTS
The place to start would have been by reading and recording the diagnostic fault codes, but disconnecting the engine computer erased them, so that valuable information was lost. Replacing random parts is not a cost-effective way to diagnose this problem. You were right that the crankshaft position sensor can cause a crank/no-start problem. (By the way, "cranking" means the starter spins the engine, and yours is). You overlooked the camshaft position sensor. On some GM V-6 engines, with a failed camshaft position sensor, you have a thirty three percent chance the engine will start and run when the computer randomly picks which pair of cylinders to fire first. On other engines there will be no spark and no injector pulses.

Diagnostic fault codes for these two sensors often do not set just from cranking the engine. They may only set while a stalled engine is coasting to a stop. To find if a signal is missing from one of them, you need a scanner to view live data. That will list the sensors with an indication to show if they are working.
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Thursday, November 16th, 2017 AT 6:16 PM
Tiny
AUSTING443
  • MEMBER
  • 2 POSTS
Ah, I forgot to mention that this used to be an intermittent issue and I had checked for codes but never received any. Before I started replacing the sensors and such (once the problem became constant, that is when I decided to start with the crankshaft position sensor seeing it was the most common cause and then started moving on when that did not work).

Also, I am sorry for forgetting this part also, but I did replace the camshaft position sensor during the replacement of the crankshaft sensor (once again, sorry for forgetting this valuable piece of information) and it still had no spark. Besides what I described happening when the Ignition switch would be moved from off to on position and vice versa.

Sadly, I do not have a scanner that can show the live data from these two sensors, so that makes it a bit more inconvenient trying to actually diagnose the issue.

Thank you for responding, I am sorry I forgot those two parts of important information also.
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Thursday, November 16th, 2017 AT 6:54 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,916 POSTS
I think the fastest way to pursue this is to see if you can borrow a scanner from an auto parts store that rents or borrows tools, or tow the car to a shop where they can connect their scanner and see if the two signals are showing up at the Engine Computer. You're going into this blind, like trying to stumble through a forest while wearing a blindfold. The fastest way out of the forest is to figure out how to get the blindfold off.

If you're going to do more of this type of repair in the future, consider buying your own scanner. If you look on eBay, there's a lot of dealer-level stuff, and some are at real good prices. I don't promote Snapon, but if you look at their "Solus Edge", these lose their value very quickly due to the extremely high cost of annual updates. These sell new for less than $4000.00, but the updates cost $1000.00 per year. You can't skip any years. To make current a unit updated to 2014, you have to buy the 2015 and 2016 updates before you can buy the 2017 update. That customer-unfriendly business practice is why I don't buy Snapon products, but for what you're working on, it can be a good value and save the cost of a couple of trips to the repair shop. You can find these updated to only 2012 to 2014 for less than $800.00. They won't bring much more because it will cost more to update them to current levels than it costs to buy a new one.
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Friday, November 17th, 2017 AT 3:51 PM

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