Engine will not stay running

Tiny
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  • 1985 MERCURY TOPAZ
  • 2.3L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 89,000 MILES
Replaced control module, the plugs and wires as well as rotor and cap new coil. Timed it will start and run for a second then shut off.
Saturday, January 15th, 2022 AT 7:40 AM

42 Replies

Tiny
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Are you getting spark after this starts then stalls? So, you replaced all these parts and then it starts and stalls, can you check to see if you have spark on a plug now?

If you have no spark, then I suspect we have an issue with the distributor. I have seen on these older Ford engines where the rotors keep breaking and the distributor shaft is the reason.

So, we need to check for spark.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-an-ignition-system

If there is no spark, then we need to track down why we have no spark.

However, if you have spark then we most likely have a fuel issue.

So, try and use starter fluid in the intake and see if the engine starts.

If it does then we need to switch to a fuel issue, and it is most likely a pump issue.

I attached some info from the manual on this so let's start with this and go from there.

Thanks
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Saturday, January 15th, 2022 AT 1:33 PM
Tiny
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Yes, I have spark at the plugs and of course I thought the fuel pump as well at first but it a manual fuel pump and disconnecting the lines shows that it is indeed pumping fuel. But I have tried the starting fluid as well as gas and still the same it will start running a second then shut off, it will fire right back up but again only for a second. Then shut off again. The car did run when parked sat for probably six months due to a bad starter. I bought the car first, changed the starter, then had no spark, changed the plugs and wires, the cap and rotor still no spark. Changed the control module and regained the spark. Checked the timing as well as rest the timing pulling the number one plug placing it on the compression stroke realigned the distributor, so it is pointing at the number one plug firing order is correct 1234on the motor side and on the distributor, it is 1342 clockwise so the timing is correct it's set at 10 degrees of timing. I have checked the timing numerous times as at first I thought it was a timing issue as it does spit back through the carb after it shuts off a little, but the timing checks out ok. The second it runs smooth at idle.
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Sunday, January 16th, 2022 AT 6:41 AM
Tiny
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Also, though it could be in the ignition switch so that was replaced as well. As I stated it's a manual fuel pump on a two barrel carb it is a 2.3 liter hsc engine.
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Sunday, January 16th, 2022 AT 6:45 AM
Tiny
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Okay. Let's take a step back. That is great info and should help.

When you add fuel, it starts? Does it start and run on its own without adding fuel to the carb?

If so, did you empty the tank and put clean fresh fuel in it? If so, we need to start with that because we start looking for an air issue.

If you have spark and fuel and it starts and stalls, then that is due to an air/fuel imbalance.

However, poor fuel quality will cause this exact thing, so we need to drain the tank and start fresh. Don't try to add additives as this will not work either.

Let me know what you find, and we can go from there.

Thanks
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Sunday, January 16th, 2022 AT 8:47 AM
Tiny
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No, it doesn't start and run when you add fuel. I tried thinking it may be the pump, but the mechanical fuel pump is pumping gas. Adding fuel to the carburetor doesn't change anything really. But I did notice when I pulled the plugs the last time they were wet with gas. But back to your response no adding fuel to the carburetor didn't cause it to run. It would still do the same thing. Nor would it cause it to spit back through the carburetor that would seem to be timing or possibly a plugged exhaust. Seeing I know the timing is correct and I do get air through the exhaust I'm not sure what it is.
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Sunday, January 16th, 2022 AT 8:56 AM
Tiny
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Okay. That is good info.

Let's do two things just to start crossing things off the list because if it ran when you parked it and you have fuel and spark now then we have to be dealing with old fuel.

We need to do it this way because I have wasted enough time to know it is always better to do it this way.

Disconnect the supply line to the carb and run it into a bucket or fuel can just because we don't want it going into the engine. If you can drain the bowl as well, then that is great.

Then change the spark plugs and use only starter fluid to start the engine with the new plugs installed.

Here is what I think is happening or at least we need to completely eliminate it as a possibility. The fuel is old and no longer able to combust properly, and the engine will not start or when it does, it stalls quickly.

I bet we have now fouled the plugs and they are wet with fuel and not able to start the engine at all. Once they are fouled, it is unlikely they will operate properly to get the engine to start so we need to change them.

So, we had old fuel, the engine flooded and fouled the plugs and now it won't start.

So we need to prove this by changing the plugs, and using known good fuel/starter fluid will get the engine to start and then it will stall once the fuel runs out.

However, at that point, you can drain the tank and if you have an inline filter, change that, and put new fuel in and you should be good to go.
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Sunday, January 16th, 2022 AT 11:22 AM
Tiny
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Thanks for your reply, but I really don't feel it's in the plugs or fuel as it will not run when you put fresh fuel in the carburetor. But either way I will change both the gas and plugs to see if that is the problem. Because I I am running out of ideas as to what it could be as well. I know after setting for that time when I first started working on it I knew the starter was bad and I changed that. Later it wouldn't start didn't have spark. So, I changed the plugs, the wires, the coil, and still no spark later I changed the control module and regained spark and it would start and shut off after a few seconds. As I said I checked the timing which was okay checked fuel and it too was fine the mechanical pump was pumping gas.
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Sunday, January 16th, 2022 AT 1:43 PM
Tiny
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Okay. I am in agreement that we may have another issue, but you have covered the basics to the point where we cannot assume it is not old fuel.

As I said, I have been burned in this exact situation by old fuel and fouled spark plugs so the only way to eliminate this is to do this and cross it off the list.

It may prove to not be the issue but doing this we will be able to confidently move on.
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Sunday, January 16th, 2022 AT 4:01 PM
Tiny
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Okay, tomorrow I will change plugs again as well as drain the fuel to add new fuel. I would probably agree that plugs are a problem even though they are new, but they are copper compared to the ones that were originally in the car being nickel. I don't know if it has anything to do with the problem but we will see. I had to wait a couple of days to have the new battery recharged from the attempts at cranking the car.
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Tuesday, January 18th, 2022 AT 6:48 PM
Tiny
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Sounds great.

Keep us posted on what happens.

Thanks for the update.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 7:59 AM
Tiny
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Okay, changed the plugs and gas and still the same issue will crank and start but only for a second then shuts off.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 9:33 AM
Tiny
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Okay. That is good to know now we can confidently move on.

More than likely something is stuck open, or the carb is gummed up from the fuel evaporating and leaving a residue inside the carburetor.

So, for me the next would be to remove the carburetor and rebuild it and inspect the various systems attached below.

Basically, this vehicle is not only a carb vehicle but has a lot of emissions systems on it that will cause all sorts of issues. The 80's was not a good year for fuel systems due to increased regulation.

I am attaching a couple systems that need to be inspected but I would focus on the first because if this is stuck open then it will flood the engine and it will stall.

Please run through this info and let us know what you find. Thanks
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 11:30 AM
Tiny
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I don't believe it has much of the emissions left this is not an American Topaz it is or was made for Mexico is why it carbureted and not fuel injected. It is a two-barrel carburetor instead of the single barrel that should have been on it I believe but as for emissions I don't believe there is much that on the car.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 11:48 AM
Tiny
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Okay. That is good. In that case we need to eliminate a vacuum leak around the carb and then I would rebuild the carburetor.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-an-engine-vacuum-gauge

Can you get a picture of the carburetor?
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 12:03 PM
Tiny
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There's one.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 12:06 PM
Tiny
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Other.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 12:07 PM
Tiny
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Another.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 12:08 PM
Tiny
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I don't know if this got posted but this is what it does.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 12:10 PM
Tiny
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Perfect.

I think you have too much air.

Does the choke remain open like that? I can't tell but it looks like that is an electric choke.

If that choke is not closing, then the engine will start on the initial burst of fuel but then it will stall because there is too much air coming in before it warms up.

Let's try starting the vehicle and use some starter fluid to keep it running after it starts. So just give it a couple burst immediately after it starts and then when it starts to stall give it a couple more.

If you are able to keep it running longer than in that video, then we need to address why that choke is not closing.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 12:19 PM
Tiny
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The last photo shows there is a wire connect inside is a coil type spring that can be adjusted but it had been that way when it did run, we always had to close the choke and pour a little gas into the carburetor to start it. After that it would run fine until it was parked because of the starter issue until I started working on it again when I replaced the starter. And it started doing as it is now. I tried to close the choke manually and I put gas in the carburetor as it starts to shut off and it doesn't change anything.
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Wednesday, January 19th, 2022 AT 12:29 PM

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