Starter not working correctly?

Welcome to 2CarPros.

You have a short to power at some point. When you say the starter shorted, can you explain what happened? Also, have you checked to see if the starter relay is fried? Try this, remove the starter relay and see if the starter engages when you connect that battery. At least that will help narrow down possible wiring issues.

If you look at the pics below, pic 1 shows the starter relay location. It is number 12 in the pic and I circled it (under hood). Remove that and see what happens. If the starter doesn't engage, switch that relay with one that is known good. Don't put the possibly bad one in any other place. First, see if the starter engages with a different relay. Here is a link that explains how to test a relay if you want to check it:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Here are a few links that explain how to use basic testing equipment when checking the relay:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-test-light-circuit-tester

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-use-a-voltmeter

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-wiring

_______________________________________

Pictures 2 and 3 are of the starting system. In picture 2, I high lighted the wires from the ignition switch so you could see how power travels to the starter. It is only a partial picture. In picture 3, you see the relay and then a purple wire going to the starter. That is the smaller wire on the starter. That specific wire should only get power when the key is in the start position and no other time. In this case, it is getting it all the time; thus, the starter wants to stay engaged. By removing the relay and checking it, we first determine if the relay is bad. Also, it will tell me if the problem is before or after the relay. For example, with the relay removed the starter still engaged. To me, that indicates there is a short to power at some point either where the relay plugs in or that purple wire is shorted to power. Are you certain that the main wire between the battery and starter (the larger one) and the purple wire (smaller one) are not crossing at any point and both are clearly separated at the starter? Make sure of that because I've seen it happen before where they are actually touching.

Take a look at the schematics I attached and I'm sorry for the sad looking arrow I drew. Still not too good at drawing on a computer. LOL

Let me know what you find.

Joe

Hi Jeff:

So the starter still engages when you have the relay removed? If that is the case, then the problem is between the relay and the smaller wire to the starter. Can you inspect that and let me know if you see anything touching, worn, or anything out of the ordinary?

I'll try to help you through this. Hang in there.

Joe

Welcome back:

Make sure nothing is touching at the starter (where the two terminals are located).

I will watch for your reply.

Joe

Jeff:

If you can, the pictures may help. Also, I need you to check where the starter relay pushes in. Make sure nothing has melted in there allowing for a short.

Joe

Wow! That wouldn't feel good. Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe

Welcome to 2CarPros.

There should only be one that is hot all the time. Two others become hot when the key is in the start position. The one that doesn't have power is most likely the ground. I attached a picture and numbered each pin. Number 1 should only get power when the key is in the start position and the vehicle is in park or neutral. Picture 2 should have power. Pin 3 should only get power when in the start position and pin 4 is ground.

What does all of this mean? Basically it's my belief that there is a short between the switch and the relay. Now, just for the heck of it, see if the starter engages if the transmission is in drive. If you look at the second picture, it shows power comes from the switch to the transmission range sensor, and then to the relay (number 1 in my first picture),

If it does still crank in gear, either the range sensor has failed or the short is between the sensor and the relay.

I realize this is a pain. Chasing electrical problems always is. However, you look like a pro with the test light. Hang in there. We'll find it.

Wait a minute. Did it still engage with the relay out? If it did, then the short has to be between numbers 1 and 3 in picture 1. Take a look at picture 3.

Let me know.

Joe

Welcome back:

Okay, then most likely there is a short between the two pins I mentioned. You may have to loosen the fuse box and inspect under it.

Joe

Welcome back, Jeff.

Check for skinned insulation, damaged connectors (melted) anything that can transfer power to a point where it isn't needed. Check the box itself under it for evidence of something getting extremely hot, which could melt the plastic and allow power to cross. Follow the wires to the relay as far back as you can to confirm things are good.

At this point, I am going to also ask the site owner for his input. He is excellent with wiring, so you may see another person jump in with us.

Joe

Hang in there Jeff. We will get it figured out somehow. Jeff, you are certain there is power all the time to the S terminal on the start (the smaller wire) correct?

Let me know.

Joe

Hello,

If I can jump in here. So lets confirm you have power at the purple wire with the relay out and the key off? Here is the entire wiring diagrams and you can see there is no way for the purple wire to have power without the relay unless you have a shorted wire to the purple feed wire, in which case I would run a new wire or find the short in the harness.