Timing issue

Tiny
NOSDUHONE
  • MEMBER
  • 2002 DODGE INTREPID
  • 155,000 MILES
I've tried to time this engine twice to the procedure it calls for but no luck, someone keeps telling me it's out of time. Well, before I tore the engine down to do a head gasket replacement, I had the valve covers off and the timing cover off. I wanted to check to see if the timing marks lined up and with about 20 or 30 rotations of the crank none of the marks ever lined up, they were close but didn't line up to what is called for. Is it possible for the engine to run out of time because when it is in time it wont run at all?
Friday, August 28th, 2020 AT 7:55 PM

13 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,885 POSTS
Hi,

It could run out of time, but maybe if it is only a tooth out and it wouldn't run good.

What size engine is it? I need to know that so I can check things out for you.

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, August 28th, 2020 AT 8:18 PM
Tiny
NOSDUHONE
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Yeah, I know that a car can run out of time being a tooth off but it was more than 1 or 2 tooth off when I was trying to get the marks to line up. I guess I should have mentioned that. And then I thought it may have jumped a tooth or more when the car broke down. It's the engine is a 2.7l, car listed above's model is an se.
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Saturday, August 29th, 2020 AT 1:52 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

This engine is an interference engine. Basically, if the timing was off, it may have caused internal damage to the valves or pistons.

I attached a pic below of the timing mark positions. Is that where they were?

Joe
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+1
Saturday, August 29th, 2020 AT 2:12 PM
Tiny
NOSDUHONE
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Yes, twice.
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Saturday, August 29th, 2020 AT 5:10 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Okay, do me a favor. Record the engine when it is cranking so I can hear it. Also, have you done a compression test? It is an interference engine, so if it was out of time, something may have happened. If I hear it when cranking, I should be able to tell if it is a timing issue. Keep in mind, timing may be correct and there be an issue with compression if the engine was out of time when you first got it.

Let me know.
Joe
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Saturday, August 29th, 2020 AT 9:15 PM
Tiny
NOSDUHONE
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Had to jump it with my truck, sorry.
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Sunday, August 30th, 2020 AT 10:48 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

It does sound like a timing issue (or a compression issue). Do me a favor, we need to do a compression test. If the timing was off originally, and you are certain it is correct now, I have a feeling you are going to find compression issues. The only way to confirm is to do the test.

Here is a link that shows how. I don't know if you need it, but I thought I would add it.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

Let me know what you find or if you have other questions.

Take care,
Joe
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Sunday, August 30th, 2020 AT 9:38 PM
Tiny
NOSDUHONE
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Will the test be accurate with the way it is cranking over? Also, on the left bank cam sprockets, what is the triangle for?
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Monday, August 31st, 2020 AT 8:03 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. The internet caused me issues.

As far as the compression, you will remove all plugs so it will turn faster and yes it will work.

As far as the triangle, I'm not sure what you are referring to. I attached a pic below. Copy and circle what you are referring to.

Joe
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Tuesday, September 1st, 2020 AT 6:16 PM
Tiny
NOSDUHONE
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Another attempt same situation. This time new kit was put in.
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Friday, September 11th, 2020 AT 8:43 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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The timing marks look spot on. What is happening?

____________________________

Here are the install directions. See if there is anything missed.

____________________________

2002 Dodge Intrepid V6-2.7L VIN R
Installation
Vehicle Engine, Cooling and Exhaust Engine Timing Components Timing Chain Service and Repair Procedures Timing Chain Installation
INSTALLATION
INSTALLATION - TIMING CHAIN
1. Inspect all sprockets and chain guides. Replace if worn.
2. For crankshaft sprocket installation procedures, Refer to TIMING CHAIN AND SPROCKETS - INSTALLATION.
3. If removed, install right and left side short chain guides (Fig. 118). Tighten attaching bolts to 28 Nm (250 in. Lbs.).

Pic 1

4. Align crankshaft sprocket timing mark to the mark on oil pump housing (Fig. 120).

NOTE: Lubricate timing chain and guides with engine oil before installation.

5. Place left side primary chain sprocket onto the chain so that the timing mark is located in-between the two (plated) timing links (Fig. 120).
6. Lower the primary chain with left side sprocket through the left cylinder head opening.

NOTE: The camshaft sprockets can be allowed to float on the camshaft hub during installation.

7. Loosely position left side camshaft sprocket over camshaft hub.
8. Align timing (plated) link to the crankshaft sprocket timing mark (Fig. 120).
9. Position primary chain onto water pump drive sprocket.
10. Align right camshaft sprocket timing mark to the timing (plated) link on the timing chain (Fig. 120) and loosely position over camshaft hub.
11. Verify that all chain timing (plated) links are properly aligned to the timing marks on all sprockets (Fig. 120).
12. Install left side lower chain guide and tensioner arm (Fig. 118). Tighten attaching bolts to 28 Nm (250 in. Lbs.).

NOTE: Inspect oil ring on chain guide access plug before installing. Replace O-ring as necessary.

13. Install chain guide access plug to left side cylinder head (Fig. 118). Tighten plug to 20 Nm (15 ft. Lbs.).

Pic 2

NOTE: To reset the primary timing chain tensioner, engine oil will first need to be purged from the tensioner (Fig. 121).

14. Purge oil from timing chain tensioner using the following procedure:
a. Place the check ball end of tensioner into the shallow end of Special Tool 8186 (Fig. 121).
B. Using hand pressure, slowly depress tensioner until oil is purged from tensioner (Fig. 121).
15. Reset timing chain tensioner using the following procedure:

pic 3

a. Position cylinder plunger into the deeper end of Special Tool 8186 (Fig. 122).
B. Apply a downward force until tensioner is reset (Fig. 122).

NOTE: If oil was not first purged from the tensioner, use slight finger pressure to assist the center arm pin of Special Tool 8186 to unseat the tensioner's check ball.

CAUTION: Ensure the tensioner is properly reset. The tensioner body must bottom against the top edge of Special Tool 8186. Failure to properly perform the resetting procedure may cause tensioner jamming.

16. Install the reset chain tensioner into the right cylinder head (Fig. 117).
17. Position tensioner retaining plate and tighten bolts to 12 Nm (105 in. Lbs.) (Fig. 117).
18. Starting at the right cylinder bank, first position the camshaft damper (if equipped) on camshaft hub, then insert a 3/8" square drive extension with a breaker bar into intake camshaft drive hub. Rotate camshaft until the camshaft hub aligns to the camshaft sprocket and damper attaching holes. Install the sprocket attaching bolts and tighten to 28 Nm (250 in. Lbs.) (Fig. 118).
19. Turn the left side camshaft by inserting a 3/8" square drive extension with a breaker bar into intake camshaft drive hub and rotate camshaft until the sprocket attaching bolts can be installed. Tighten sprocket bolts to 28 Nm (250 in. Lbs.) (Fig. 118).
20. Rotate engine slightly clockwise to remove timing chain slack, if necessary.

Pic 4

21. Activate the timing chain tensioner by using a flat bladed pry tool to gently pry tensioner arm towards the tensioner slightly (Fig. 123). Then release the tensioner arm. Verify the tensioner is activated (extends).
22. Install the timing chain cover, crankshaft vibration damper, and cylinder head covers.
23. Install camshaft position sensor and connect electrical connector.
24. Install upper intake manifold.

NOTE: After installation of a reset tensioner, engine noise will occur after initial start-up. This noise will normally disappear within 5-10 seconds.

______________________________________

If the engine still sounds the same when cranking, have you checked compression?

Joe
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Friday, September 11th, 2020 AT 9:26 PM
Tiny
NOSDUHONE
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Have to get new compression tester or borrow one.
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Saturday, September 12th, 2020 AT 2:42 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

My concern is that something has been damaged internally. A compression test should indicate if there is an issue. Looking at the pics you sent me, I would say you did a good job. The timing marks are right where they should be.

Let me know if you have a chance to check the compression. I'm interested in knowing.

Take care,
Joe
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Saturday, September 12th, 2020 AT 7:26 PM

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