Starting and idle trouble, codes P1298 and P1071

Tiny
RW0575
  • MEMBER
  • 2001 HONDA CIVIC
  • 1.4L
  • 4 CYL
  • MANUAL
  • 253,000 MILES
The codes: P1298 and P1071.
Alternator, starter, and battery tested good.
Keep having to jump start (or pop the clutch start sometimes). The last few times I was able to get it started without either of those. It just sounded tired, sluggish (sort of like flooded, but not, with clicking in the dash) but it finally started.
I replaced the sub ground cable in front and the negative battery cable/ground wire. This did not stop issue. I have been leaving it idling after a short trip (twenty minutes like one would if recharging battery after a jump start) and that seems to help it start up again the next day.
I was thinking of troubleshooting the main relay next, but I am not sure. I heard clicking in the dashboard when starting it while it was having trouble.
The only thing I can think that was out of the ordinary recently was that I used one 3 oz treatment in late January of Lucas The Complete Fuel Treatment with Injector Cleaner and fuel conditioners in the clear bottle with white label. The starting problems did not start until early March, though.
Monday, April 2nd, 2018 AT 11:45 AM

3 Replies

Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,864 POSTS
I can get you started with two things to consider. First, I would want to see the exact test results for the battery and the generator. Too many inexperienced mechanics do not understand what the numbers mean and incorrectly pass a generator with a problem. Specifically, all AC generators use six "diodes" which are one-way valves for electrical current flow. When one of those fails, the most that generator will be able to develop is exactly one third of its rated value. Your car uses a 70-amp generator which is very small for that era, but more than sufficient to do the job. With one bad diode, the most you will be able to get during a full-load output current test is around 25 amps. That is not enough to meet the demands of the entire electrical system under all conditions. The battery will have to make up the difference until it slowly runs down over days or weeks. Charging voltage, which must be between 13.75 and 14.75 volts, will typically still be okay, but two low-beam head lamp bulbs draw ten amps. The electric fuel pump, ignition system, and fuel injection system will draw another 15 amps or more. Now add the tail/running lights, radio, heater fan, radiator fan, ... And it is easy to see why the generator cannot keep up.

The second concern is one I only learned about in a class a few years ago, but never encountered myself. This only applies to Honda's, but I cannot remember which years. Many of their charging systems are computer-controlled, which is common on many brands, but on some Honda's, the many electrical "loads" are programmed into the computer, then that computer commands the generator to work just hard enough to meet the calculated load, and no more. All other systems look at system voltage which is much more accurate. If another load turns on, such as the radiator fan, that draws system voltage down a little. The voltage regulator sees that drop in voltage and in response, it runs the generator harder to produce additional current until system voltage comes back up where it wants it to be. On Honda's, the computer gets a computer signal from everything you turn on, like the head lights, radio, etc, and it adds up all those loads to calculate how much current it will take to run all of them. That is how much current it will command the generator to develop, and no more. Where people run into trouble is when they add electrical accessories to these cars. A good example is an aftermarket radio. That would not be monitored and the computer would not get a signal to tell it the radio is turned on. Same with an ear-damaging add-on amplifier, aftermarket fog lamps, and things like that. A simple radio can draw two to five amps. That current won't be included in the calculation so it will have to come from the battery. Even though the charging system is working exactly as designed, you could end up with a discharged battery after just a few hours to a few days of driving.

I am sorry I do not know more about that system or if it even applies to your car. Did you get a printout of the test results for the charging system? If you did, post the results for the "full-load output current" test, "charging voltage", and "ripple" voltage.
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Monday, April 2nd, 2018 AT 12:25 PM
Tiny
RW0575
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I will see if I can get the results of the tests or get it tested again. The AC works well, but I think the AC fan may need replacing soon because of rust. It is making a noise sometimes when idling. Could the AC and/or AC fan be a factor even though it is still working? Should I get the ELD and the main relay tested? That is a common problem from what I understand.
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Monday, April 2nd, 2018 AT 2:43 PM
Tiny
CARADIODOC
  • MECHANIC
  • 33,864 POSTS
From what you described, relays and other systems are working, so do not waste time with those yet. Fan motors are already included in current demand calculations, however, a motor with tight bearings will draw higher than normal current. Typically that will cause a fuse or fuse link wire to burn open. I am more interested in the charging system test numbers. Those will tell us if that is where you need to be looking or if we will need to enlist the help of some of the other experts.
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Monday, April 2nd, 2018 AT 2:53 PM

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