Random ignition fail

Tiny
DRUMMINBAKER
  • MEMBER
  • 1999 SATURN SW2
  • 1.9L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 172,000 MILES
I have replaced clutch switch, starter new AcDelco, new battery.

When it won’t start, there is no clicking or dash warning lights, but car will push start.

One time when it failed, I pulled the key and turned it upside down, and it started. I tried that another time and no result. So I got a push start, and when I got home, It has not failed to start yet (may 14, 2020).

I had a professional mechanic put the starter in in late April 2020, and he spent 6 hours going through all the ground connections and cleaned them. He also reinstalled a module above the radio console with buttons on it, traction control, rear defogger and another I don't know about yet. He repaired a chime switch at the driver door that had been inoperative, and tested lots and lots of connections, grounds, fuses, relays, etc.

He test started the car at least 20 times with no failure.

In three weeks, since the work and the new starter, it has failed to key start 3 times, with each failure, turning the key, no click, no dash panel indicator lights; but car will push start(rolling and popping the clutch in 3rd gear).

When I bought the car I found a bag full of relays and fuses and realized someone has already tried to troubleshoot the problem, then I asked the person I bought it from how she ended up with it, and she said that the person she got it from said the previous owner gave it to her free.
So, I have a bag full of replaced fuses and relays, and two good starters in a box that I replied with a new AcDelco.
One more thing. The stereo had been removed and there is an empty hole with the wires (13 of them) just laying in there loose, but the ends taped so there isn't and contact issues. The plug I ordered has 16 wires, and I plan in the future to have a professional stereo shop install one for me.
Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 9:48 AM

8 Replies

Tiny
KASEKENNY
  • MECHANIC
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I suspect you have an issue with the ignition switch. The fact that turn the key over got it to start points to this. I am not sure it had an effect but at this point it is all we have to go on.

We need to measure voltage coming off the switch when this is acting up. If you have no voltage then the switch needs to be replaced.

Let me know if this is the case and we can go from there. Thanks
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 4:57 PM
Tiny
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Where (not using the circuit diagram) physically is the point I put the test leads at?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 6:44 PM
Tiny
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Oh, and, I think I could just buy a new switch and put it in, and see if that fixes it? It's a $47.00 part and if it fixes it, then I don't have to borrow a multi tester and wait for it to happen somewhere away from home?
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Thursday, May 14th, 2020 AT 6:54 PM
Tiny
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Yeah. I would agree. If you don't have a meter then you can get the switch cheaper then the meter. So I would proceed with your thoughts. Let us know what you find. Thanks
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Friday, May 15th, 2020 AT 6:11 PM
Tiny
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Well, it happened again twice today. With a different key. Pulling it out and inverting didn't work. I rolled and popped in 3rd gear, and it didn't start, but the dash indicators came on just as I reached the end of the driveway and was on the curb and it key started. Then a couple hours later, the same thing happened at the gas station. This got me thinking about possible flywheel problems. Is there any electrical connections tied in with flywheel position, or crank position? I was thinking about pulling the coil wire and running the starter to see if it stops on a certain spot on the flywheel. You think that would be worth trying?
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Saturday, May 16th, 2020 AT 2:48 PM
Tiny
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Can you get a video of what it does when it doesn't start? The fact that it works when you compression start it (roll down a hill) points to the starting system and not the flywheel or anything else. Basically we need to suspect that the starter is not getting the proper voltage on the control wire.

This is usually caused by the clutch position switch. However, I was under the impression when this acts up that the cluster does not come one (warning lights/ gauges) when you turn the key. This is why I want to see a video of what it does so we can get on the same page. Thanks
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Sunday, May 17th, 2020 AT 5:31 PM
Tiny
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The clutch safety switch has been replaced. It is at the floor where the pedal touches the floor. When I changed it out, the car had not moved from a non-starting incidence, and that wasn't successful. Your impression is correct, that when the fail start happens, there are no indicator lights coming on, and no click sound, and the starter makes no noise whatsoever. A complete ignition switch with barrel and keys is on the way from an 2004 at a wrecking yard on Ebay. I decided to try pulling the coil wire and running the starter to see if I can find a dead spot. I suspect the crankshaft position sensor, and even though it can be tested, it is less expensive to buy and replace myself than shop labor to check it. Would you have heard of any other Saturn owners with my problem? My friend said today that she saw a classified ad for a same model make year car with an identical problem, phantom fail starting.
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Sunday, May 17th, 2020 AT 6:52 PM
Tiny
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I have not heard of you specific vehicle but a crank sensor no start issue is very common. It happens more though when the vehicle is hot. Normally the car will stall when hot and then not restart until it cools down. This is due to the type of sensor that they are called hall effect sensors.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/symptoms-of-a-bad-crankshaft-sensor

At this point, I can only see that this doesn't match the common failure of the crank sensor because it won't prevent the engine from cranking. The fact that you say when it acts up that you turn the key and the dash doesn't light up or the starter doesn't click, this sounds like the ignition switch is not operating. However, I have seen crazier things.

I would move forward with the ignition switch when it gets here and if you want to do the crank sensor as well then it can't hurt.
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Monday, May 18th, 2020 AT 7:03 PM

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