What is causing reduced engine power?

Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
  • MEMBER
  • 2010 CHEVROLET SILVERADO
  • 5.3L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 58,000 MILES
I originally had a P2135 error code with the Stabilitrak dash icon, service traction control dash message, and reduced engine power mode. Replacing the APP assembly fixed the P2135 error. Now I'm experiencing a P0220 error code (my OBDII scanner read codes) which also states"Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor /Switch B circuit low". I already replaced the throttle position sensor on the throttle assembly. The P0220 problem persists. Engine reduced power and the other dash icons and messages still also persist. I am now testing the throttle position sensor and assembly on the test bench for its TPS-2 (B)sensor output resistance value in the throttle closed position. I read somewhere that it is supposed to be approximately 4K ohms but I am measuring 2K ohms instead. (Movement of the throttle blade shows a smooth resistance value change through its travel from closed to fully open. The transition is from 2K ohms down to 1.2K ohms.) So is the 4K ohm value for this output resistance (throttle fully closed. At rest position) correct or incorrect?
Tuesday, September 10th, 2019 AT 4:17 PM

28 Replies

Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Hi,

First I would clean the throttle body this guide will help

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/throttle-actuator-service

Normally these sensors are not tested with resistance. The reason is, we need to see what the voltage reading is according to the PCM. So the resistance readings could be different. In fact TPS 1 and 2 are exact opposites of each other so I would not expect the resistance on each circuit to be different.

However, there is a note in this manual that you need to pay attention too. If this is your only DTC then it says to replace the ECM.

However, this DTC is saying that there is a circuit issue. So more than likely you have a wiring issue or a circuit board issue. Clearly that may be answered for us if this is the only DTC.

Let me know what you find. Thanks
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Tuesday, September 10th, 2019 AT 8:22 PM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Thank you for the great input! You've given me very helpful information to followup on. I'll get back to you with results based on your help and anything else I may discover.
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Tuesday, September 10th, 2019 AT 9:37 PM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Thanking you for your help and support here KASEKENNY1. What happened today is that after I had cleaned the throttle body (again), taking resistance measurements from its sensor, and actuating the throttle plate motor with a viable output power supply I re-installed the throttle body assembly on the truck. I then performed the "pedal depression/release slow then fast 3 or more times procedure. Started the truck and let it idle for 3 minutes. Shut it off for a couple minutes. Started the truck again and let it idle for 3 minutes again. Shut it off. Started it again and drove it around the block and it started acting up again with all the icons I mentioned before on the dash with the reduced engine power (limp mode). I pulled it back in the driveway and connected my scanner and it read codes P2135, P0222, and P0220. Really depressing! But now, here is the really weird part. When I restarted the truck so that my wife could park her car behind mine (in our narrow driveway) and drove it around the block for this vehicle re-positioning the truck ran fine; great as a matter fact. So, when I pulled it back into the driveway (with my wife pulling her car up behind my truck) I decide to "rev" it several times. Absolutely no problem occurred with response or even any hint of attempting to go into "limp mode". I shut it back off again and re-started it up again several times with revving the engine many times. No problem now. I re-connected my scanner to see if there were any error codes. The scanner reported that there were no error codes. All seems well now. I will keep checking this situation as this is really strange. I will still perform the checks that you mentioned. I'm wondering if I have an intermittent grounding problem or an open/flaky wire connection. It is good though to know there is help and support for people like us from you guys.
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Wednesday, September 11th, 2019 AT 9:02 AM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Questions on acronyms and possibly if some are the same thing. Please confirm my guess or correct me on each as follows:
1) DTC = Diagnostic Test Code?
2) TAC = Throttle Actuator Controller?
3) ECM = Engine Control Module?
4) PCM = Powertrain Control Module?

Are there even more controller modules or computers in the vehicle referenced by me (justplainwayne)?
Thanks for your expertise.
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Wednesday, September 11th, 2019 AT 12:15 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Okay. That is great news that the throttle seems to be responding. A lot of times with these types of codes, they require two good trips to go stored. This means the vehicle has to act properly for two trips in a row and then they will go stored and clear out. Clearly, we don't want to attempt to fix anything if its not broken. In other words, lets just drive it and if it breaks again, we can dig further based on those DTCs.

DTC = Diagnostic Trouble Code
TAC = Throttle Air Control
ECM - Engine Control Module
PCM - Powertrain Control Module

You also have a lot more modules but just to name a few

BCM - Body Control Module
TBCM - Trailer Brake Control Module
HVAC - Heating Ventilation Air conditioning module
TCM - Transmission Control Module
ORC - Occupant restraint module
MSCM - Memory Seat Control module

And more.

Let me know if I missed any of your questions. Thanks
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Wednesday, September 11th, 2019 AT 2:39 PM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Great advice KASEKENNY1. Will do. Also, thank you for correcting the acronyms definitions for me. Really good stuff, really helpful. I'm trying to catch up. BTW, drove the truck a couple times more and all's good so far. It still has the check engine light in the dash display but I suppose it will go out by itself since there are no DTC codes now. Thanks again amigo.
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Wednesday, September 11th, 2019 AT 4:08 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Your codes are most likely stored and no longer active. Your code reader probably only reads active codes. So the light is still on because the codes are technically still there. Yes. It should turn off if there are no codes once it passes enough good trips.

That links for the kinds words. Please keep us updated.
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Wednesday, September 11th, 2019 AT 5:58 PM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Good call KASEKENNY1! The check engine light went off last night on the way home from McDonald's. I still do not have high confidence in this "fixed situation" yet, but, and this is true, it is wonderful to know there are helpers that really know what they are doing, like you guys. This gives us encouragement to stay the course as DIY'rs out here. I really, really do like my GM Silverado truck and it has been good up to this point.
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Thursday, September 12th, 2019 AT 8:24 AM
Tiny
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Awesome. That’s positive news. I totally understand that you don’t have the confidence in it yet. The more you drive the more you will.

Thanks for the kind words. Please keep us updated. We are here if you need anything else.
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Thursday, September 12th, 2019 AT 6:52 PM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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I need to update this situation. 9-27-2019. 2010 Silverado with 5.3L engine, 58,000 mi, LT, 2 wheel drive, and Crew cab. I have been going through the problem I described coming back and going away for almost two months now. I though it was fixed. It came back at the strangest times, usually when in PARK idling. Yesterday we found the problem. (The truck must have heard I was going to get my oscilloscope out and start examining signals. Ha!) Anyway, I noted that the problem seemed to always come back only after I re- installed the "Vortec" top engine plastic cover on it. Big Clue. So, it was noted that the cover was affecting the harness routed around the top/back of the engine. That was the harness that contained the wires going to the TPS (throttle-body position sensor). The wire that was the TPS sensor 2 signal wire (scanner reported "switch B circuit low voltage DTC - P0220 error) which is a purple wire (wire "F" at the TPS) was routed on the outside level/layer of the harness right up against the transmission dip stick tube (TDST). The TDST vibrates like a "tuning fork", especially at idle in PARK. (In drive it seems to not oscillate like a "tuning fork" so much.) I got up into the engine compartment to look closely at that purple wire routed close the the TDST. It was night time so I was using a bright flashlight to look at this. Low and behold I saw the insulation had been rubbed off the purple wire right at the point where it was routed up against the TDST. I saw a "sliver" of copper strand of the conductor wire, bare and shiney". It was not much, but enough to interact with the TDST which is actually engine/body ground! I though surely this cannot be the cause of my problem, so I tested the situation multiple times in "make the problem come back and then make the problem go away" process methodology. This is unbelievable, but true. I could make the problem come back by firmly pressing against the harness (as is done by the "Vortec" cover) up against the TDST while the engine was idling in PARK. I would then pull the harness away from the TDST shut the engine down and re-start it and the problem would go away. I did this four times shutting the engine off and re-starting it noting the problem coming back (harness pressed firmly against the TDST) and going away (harness pulled slightly away from the TDST). It should be noted that the problem that showed on the dash display WAS: Engine Power Reduced - Stabilitrak error icon light - service traction control message - CEL (Check Engine Light). Every time. With OBDII DTC scanner codes P0220 P2135 P0222. Now that this diagnostic testing has been validated, it is also theorized that high humidity environments also aggravate the situation to cause the issue intermittently, especially during wet conditions. It should be noted also that the TDST showed minor removal of its black epoxy paint covering, but there must have been enough removal to effectuate a ground to the TPS 2 switch B circuit signal output from the TPS so that the ECM/TAC caused these resultant errors and engine de-optimizations through this problem detection. Crazy! Yes! True. Yes! So far now after this fix (harness rerouted and wire wrapped with insulation wrapping) no problem and good idling and driving. I will update later if anything else happens, but I think we nailed this one. I sincerely hope this helps others participating in this forum. (Also thank you KASEKENNY1 for all your encouragement and help.)
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Friday, September 27th, 2019 AT 2:29 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Great update. Thanks for the detail. Yes. Wiring issues are sometimes hard to believe but I have seen my share that this is 100% believable.

Please come back and start a new post if you have other issues because I am sure you put this one to bed. Good Job!
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Friday, September 27th, 2019 AT 6:28 PM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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KASEKENNY1
Requesting your expert opinion. I too believe that we have nailed the issue. Never-the-less, I did replace the TPS on the throttle valve assembly and also the APP assembly under the dash in the truck. With this, how critical do you think it is that the ECM be reprogrammed after doing this if the truck is running fine now? I ask this because a technical bulletin(s) indicates that this is necessary when the TPS is replaced. I'm referring to GM Service Bulletin 11-06-04-007B and 11-06-04-007C. Do you know, or does someone you know, have first-hand knowledge pertaining to the new software having "real" fundamental, functionality updates relative to the proper operation (enhanced operation) of these assemblies with each other? No hurry on that reply amigo. (If I don't need to take the truck to the dealer for this reprogramming step I prefer not to (if you know what I mean.) Thanks ahead of time.
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Saturday, September 28th, 2019 AT 11:09 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Good question. I read the TSBs and this is not having you replace the throttle body assembly only the TP cover. This means the sensor is working just fine but what the OEM does is figure out a better way to operate the throttle body and they alter the control modules software so that it operates it in the new fashion. Basically, this is to prevent issues that they have found.

Look at it like "bug fixes" for your cell phone or APPs. Whenever Apple puts out a new software version, we all perform the update for best performance or bug fixes, not necessarily because we had an issue with the phone. The phone worked just fine before but after the update we may notice it doesn't lock up as much or doesn't have some other issue that they corrected with that software. Same exact situation here. This is not a procedure that must be done in order to have the truck operate. However, it is a good idea to have it done so you don't have the issue that they corrected in this flash.

I would suggest just having a dealer or any other shop that is capable of performing these updates do your next oil change and tell them to perform all updates available while they are there. This way it is not a special trip to the dealer and it is less inconvenient. Yes it will cost a little bit more money but if you haven't had things updated in a while, it is a good idea because it can prevent some parts from failing.

In short, you will be fine without it but it is a good idea.

Hopefully this answers your question.
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Sunday, September 29th, 2019 AT 7:14 AM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Thank you KASEKENNY1. I'll be back if the issue resurfaces somehow, but I think we got it this time. As I mentioned before, it is a blessing to know that "we out here" have help from experts like you guys.
Wayne
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Sunday, September 29th, 2019 AT 10:15 AM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Just as an update, the truck has been running fine ever since the problem was identified and corrected as communicated in this JUSTPLAINWAYNE / KASEKENNY1 information string. I will try to give at least one more update in a month or so to this site.
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Wednesday, October 9th, 2019 AT 4:34 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Thank you for the update. This site is only as good as the info provided and if they lead to solutions. Too often we don't know if the info provided helped so thank you for helping to make this site better.
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Wednesday, October 9th, 2019 AT 6:00 PM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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First thing that I would do is to read the error code(s) with a OBDII scanner/reader and report the error code(s) on this web site forum. Normally, the error code(s) will help in identifying the source of the problem. The OBDII port is usually at the bottom of the dash. (When your vehicle is safety inspected they connect to it for the emissions test.) Just as an example, I saw an Autel scanner at Walmart for for just $19.99, so they're reasonably priced and they come with instructions on how to use them.
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Friday, October 18th, 2019 AT 9:21 PM
Tiny
KEN L
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Excellent addition to this thread! :)
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Saturday, October 19th, 2019 AT 10:55 AM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Thank you Ken.
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Saturday, October 19th, 2019 AT 2:40 PM
Tiny
JUSTPLAINWAYNE
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Well, I mentioned that I would "close the loop" on this forum pertaining to the problem and solution that I have reported with my 2010 Chevy Silverado. (Check the JUSTPLAINWAYNE info. String). I'm happy to say all is still fine with my truck and the identified problem was corrected and enough time has now passed to support the fix / solution. No more reports will be provided on this situation, unless, hopefully not, a re-occurrence happens. Thank to to this forum and its participants.
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Friday, November 8th, 2019 AT 1:15 PM

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