Overheating, the engine gets hot and fans do not turn on?

Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
  • MEMBER
  • 2005 FORD MUSTANG
  • 4.0L
  • V6
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 150,000 MILES
Engine gets hot and fans do not turn on. Lower radiator hose hot, upper not. Both heater hoses get hot so I assume water pump is OK. Removed thermostat and all hoses hot. Fan didn't come on. Tested fan by supplying current and ground directly to resistor. Fan fuse and relays test ok. Only powered relays directly and contact clicked. Didn't check to see if current was being sent out other terminals. I unplugged the temp sensor on T-stat housing no change. I was going to jump the connector but didn't have time. Is it possible the resistor is still bad even though the fan came on when I powered it? Is it possible an air pocket is causing the overheating? What's my next course of action?
Tuesday, September 24th, 2024 AT 6:06 PM

18 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,645 POSTS
Hi,

I attached the wiring schematic for the fans below. If you checked the fuses already and used them as a power supply, we know they are good. If you didn't, please confirm there is power present in both sides of them.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-a-car-fuse

Next, pins 87 should have power at the relay at all times. I need you to confirm that both of the pins (87/one at each relay) has power. If they do, we need to confirm there is a ground path being provided when the engine is starting to overheat.

The ground path is what turns the relays on to send power to the fans. Also, disconnect the engine coolant temp sensor to see if that forces them to turn on as well as the AC.

Here is a link that explains how to test the relays and the circuit:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

Let me know what you find.

Joe

See pics below
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Tuesday, September 24th, 2024 AT 8:08 PM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
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Update: Fuse has power in and out. Terminal 87 on high and low speed relays has power. Both have ground but it seems it's there before it gets hot. When the temp sensor is connected the fan will not come on even at 200, measured with IR gun. When it's disconnected the fan run as long as the car is running. When the temperature sensor is connected, and the AC is on it cycles on and off. Scratching my head on that. I now found out that this engine has been overheated 3 times. The system doesn't seem to pressure up and I can smell coolant and hear a hissing down by the passenger side head. I'm also told that it will lose some coolant in a couple hundred miles. I don't see water on the dipstick, but I think there a tiny bit of oil in the coolant reservoir. Tomorrow I will do a combustion gas test on the coolant. I think the T-stat failed and caused a small head gasket leak.
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Wednesday, September 25th, 2024 AT 5:49 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,645 POSTS
Hi,

If it won't hold pressure, there has to be a leak. Did you try pressure testing it?

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/radiator-pressure-test

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, September 25th, 2024 AT 8:21 PM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
  • MEMBER
  • 434 POSTS
Tomorrow along with combustion gas test. Why would it cycle with AC on but not with it?
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Wednesday, September 25th, 2024 AT 9:39 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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The fan turns on and off when the compressor engages and disengages. That is working from a different relay and sounds like it is working properly.

Joe
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Thursday, September 26th, 2024 AT 11:49 AM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
  • MEMBER
  • 434 POSTS
I did the pressure test and found a very small crack on the base of the passenger side upper locating post. I ran the car with 15psi and my scanner reading live data and the fan cycles at 109 C. That's with it idling in the driveway. It would appear everything is working as it should. Just need to put a thermostat in it. Right now it's open. I'm going to try and repair the crack with super glue and baking soda. I've fixed so many plastics with it and even submersed it in gasoline and it doesn't break down.
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Thursday, September 26th, 2024 AT 5:03 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Sounds like a plan. If you can, let me know if this takes care of the issues. I'm hopeful and interested in knowing.

Take care,

joe
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Thursday, September 26th, 2024 AT 6:06 PM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
  • MEMBER
  • 434 POSTS
I repaired the crack high speed fan circuit cycles on at 109C and off at 104C. The temperature drops to 100C. Low speed doesn't cycle or activate when relay is jumped. Is this the resistor? Drove 30mi. Live data showed coolant as low as 82C. Only reaches 109C if sitting at idle for a long time. Of course the ambient temperature is in the 70s now. I think it needs a t-stat to hold temperature closer to optimum. Last two photos are the repair and 1st is at 109C. Completely dry at 15psi and 228F. Checked again after 30mi, perfect. I swear this repair is stronger than the original plastic most of the time.
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Friday, September 27th, 2024 AT 12:08 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

The repair looks great. What all do you put together to make it work? LOL I may need the recipe at some point.

As far as the relay, if the fan doesn't turn on when you jump pins 87 and 30, there has to be an open at some point between the relay and fan motor. Make sure there is power present at one of the two pins.

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, September 27th, 2024 AT 7:54 PM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
  • MEMBER
  • 434 POSTS
Pin 87 has power, does the resistor have two separate circuits? On most repairs you use super glue to fasten the parts. Then you rough up the crack with sandpaper or a file, lay the super glue over the crack but a little wider, then put baking soda on and smooth it out. Repeat a couple times removing excess soda between coats. You can sand it, grind it, whatever. I've used it on many types of plastic. For additional strength you can mix pencil graphite in with the baking soda. I've never tried that, I've also heard of using concrete instead of baking soda. I haven't tried that either. Here's a picture of a Volvo timing belt cover that got stepped on.
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Friday, September 27th, 2024 AT 9:41 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Wow, that is impressive. I never heard of doing it like that.

As far as the relay, it has a primary side and a secondary side. Take a look through this link. It explains how it works and how to check the circuit.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

If you have power at 87, the fan should turn on if you place a jumper between pins 87 and 30. Let me know it does.

Joe
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Saturday, September 28th, 2024 AT 6:28 PM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
  • MEMBER
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Only the high-speed relay activates the fan when jumped.
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Saturday, September 28th, 2024 AT 6:55 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Pin 85 gets power from a different fuse. Try jumping 85 and 87 pm the low-speed relay. See if it turns on. If it does, then we aren't getting power to that relay, the relay is bad, or there is a broken (open) wire between the relay and the fan.

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, September 29th, 2024 AT 6:09 PM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
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I'll try that, I've swapped with the high speed relay so the relay is good. Thank you
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Sunday, September 29th, 2024 AT 8:41 PM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
  • MEMBER
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Jumped 85 and 87, low speed did not turn on.
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Monday, September 30th, 2024 AT 6:51 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

If 85 has power, there is an open circuit between the relay and the fan motor. Are you able to locate the light green wire with a yellow tracer? If so, we need to check the connector condition and confirm the wire itself isn't damaged. That is the power supply for the low speed. If pin 85 did have power and the fan didn't run when you jumped the two, there is an open or the fan is bad. However, it does work with the high-speed relay. That tells me the fan motor works. That leaves an open circuit.

Let me know.

Joe
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Monday, September 30th, 2024 AT 8:09 PM
Tiny
JEFF HERMAN
  • MEMBER
  • 434 POSTS
No power at pin 85. Where does it get its voltage supply?
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Wednesday, October 2nd, 2024 AT 8:47 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,645 POSTS
Hi,

Power to that pin comes from fuse 40 in the bussed electrical center located at the right front of the engine compartment. Note that pin 86 on the high-speed relay gets power from the same place. If that relay has power and the low doesn't, there is an issue with the buss.

I attached a pic below showing the fuse to check. The second pic shows the wiring.

Let me know if this helps.

Take care,

Joe

See pic below.
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Thursday, October 3rd, 2024 AT 6:43 PM

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