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Misfire, no codes?

Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
  • MEMBER
  • 2000 DODGE RAM WAGON
  • 5.2L
  • V8
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 93,000 MILES
It all started when I changed the o2 sensor right after I changed spark plugs. I bought the van a couple months ago and have been doing a ton of preventive maintenance, so I was trying to get ahead of it.
Soon as I got on the road it started misfiring, usually when I accelerate after stopping. Just bucks like gas isn't reaching properly.

Since there were no codes, I ran my emission test on the OBD scanner and both bank 1 sensor and catalyst came back failed. Thought I had a faulty sensor or something, so I popped the old one back in. Nothing changed. Long story short, a new catalytic converter along with a new sensor fixed nothing. It occurs to me only then that the spark plugs may be to blame. Sure enough 2 of them were already burned after driving about 10 miles. Replaced all of them again and after thinking I was good for about a mile, it started again. This time it even turned off at a stop sign though started right back up. I'd never lost total power before.
I did NOT have any of these issues before the new spark plugs and sensor. Now I'm in quite a bit of money and the spark plug wires are my last guess. The boots were really hard to get off during the first change and I'm wondering if they could be damaged from getting them out and damaging new plugs? They don't have any obvious damage but I don't have experience with this. Also, I ran emissions again after driving with new catalytic and sensor (o2 passed but catalyst still failed). Plugs are all gapped properly and correct for the van. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
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Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 AT 6:39 PM

33 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,885 POSTS
Hi,

It is possible when the plug wires were reinstalled, they are now touching something that could have melted the insulation causing a short. Also, it is possible that the plugs were damaged.

Don't laugh, but when it is dark outside, start the engine and open the hood. See if you notice any arcing from the plug wires.

What codes are you getting?

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 AT 8:12 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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Hey Joe, thanks for the quick reply! The thing is it's not throwing any codes. Not one. But it's jerking like crazy when I drive. The only thing that's been consistent is the catalyst "failed" when I run the emissions test. Also, when I look at the live data the short-term fuel shows gaps. Today was the first time it shut off altogether after I put the 2nd set of plugs in. Don't I have to spray some water to test for wire failure? Idk, saw it on YouTube. Thanks!
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Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 AT 8:33 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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I should clarify its doing the same thing with both sets of spark plugs. Even used a different brand this time.
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Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 AT 8:35 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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As far as the water, you can do that. Lightly mist water on the wires. Don't get the other electronics wet.

As far as the converter, do you have a P0420 code?

Let me know. Also, I suspect there is a problem with the wires. Check that. Also, and I don't like asking, but are you certain you have the plug wires going to the correct plugs?

Joe
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Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 AT 8:45 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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I'm definitely going to do the water test and let you know. I have no codes at all though on the converter. When I run codes, none are found but when I run emissions, I get that catalyst failed. But that's it. I had that same feeling about the wires today, so I double checked all the routing from the distributor to each cylinder to be sure and they were all correct.
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Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 AT 9:51 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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Okay, so no sparks when I did the water test. I'm guessing that's not entirely foolproof though as the connection inside the boots could be damaged. I mean when I did the first set of plugs it was like those things hadn't been removed since the car was manufactured in 2000! I had to really pull on them to get them to budge so maybe I damaged them in the process. The whole thing is just so odd because before the spark plugs and o2 sensor went in the car wasn't misfiring at all. But as I've said I replaced the entire exhaust system aside from the manifolds. Did a soapy water test and no leaks there. I'm thinking replace the wires and rule that out next? Hell of a lot cheaper than this catalytic converter was! Thanks Joe!
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Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024 AT 10:07 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

That is where I would start. Since it started after replacing the plugs, there is a good chance the wires got damaged internally.

Start with doing that and let me know if it resolves the issue.

Joe
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Thursday, July 4th, 2024 AT 7:40 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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Will do. Thanks so much Joe!
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Thursday, July 4th, 2024 AT 9:12 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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Have more info today (I think). Changed the wires which seemed to stop it from misfiring as frequently but still definitely doing it. Then I ran emissions and a freeze frame this time and got error p0000c8. But also my sensor and catalyst failed this time. I did disconnect the battery when changing the wires but it should still be reading from last computer read? I'm just so confused. Are all these things related to one another? Just seems like it all started with that o2 sensor and plug change. Again, its misfiring much less with the new plugs but still doing it so I'm kind of at the end of my expertise here. Any thoughts?
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Friday, July 5th, 2024 AT 12:57 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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Sorry freeze frame code was p00008.
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Friday, July 5th, 2024 AT 12:58 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

The code isn't specific for this vehicle. However, it is a Chrysler code that indicates a misalignment between the crankshaft and camshaft. In other words, the timing is off.

In this case, it wouldn't be an electrical issue but instead, a stretched timing chain or it jumped time. On this engine, it is a straightforward design with one chain that times the camshaft and crankshaft. It would be unlikely that it has failed (not common), but anything is possible.

Please keep in mind, that code isn't listed for this year, make, and model. I just know the code. See pic below. The code list starts with P0030.

Let me know if you hear any odd noise from behind the timing chain cover at the front of the engine. Also, confirm that code for me.

Joe
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Saturday, July 6th, 2024 AT 9:52 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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I don't hear any kind of odd noises coming from the engine whatsoever. Is there any chance it could be camshaft position sensor?
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Sunday, July 7th, 2024 AT 2:24 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Anything is certainly possible. On this engine, the camshaft position sensor is located in the distributor housing. I attached a picture below showing it.

I do have another question. I just want to confirm the code you gave me. Is it a P0008?

Let me know.

Joe

See pic below.
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Sunday, July 7th, 2024 AT 9:47 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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Yep, that's the code. I think I initially added an extra zero. I'm going to take a look and let you know. The more I look into the timing chain itself the more it makes sense. I did remember one thing from the other day and I have no idea why I didn't correlate the two. I actually pulled over to see if the sound I was hearing was any part of my new exhaust maybe come loose. There was a small noise I hadn't heard before. I want to say kind of a rattle, but I have so much stuff in the van (it's a camper van build) including tools that I just kind of wrote it off as something inside. I didn't want to drive it too much for obvious reasons but I did just learn that its a non interference engine so that gave me a little hope as to not having screwed too much up on the test drives. The symptoms do sound a lot like the timing chain. One the heat breaks here in a couple days I'll get back out there and have a look. I really appreciate your insight into this!
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Monday, July 8th, 2024 AT 12:23 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

First, you are very welcome. I just hope I can help. LOL The 318CI engine is a very strong and long-lasting engine when maintained. At this mileage, I wouldn't have thought timing chain, but it certainly is a possibility. If oil changes were neglected, the dirt in the oil can cause the chain to wear prematurely.

Regardless, let me know if you find where that noise is. And, take your time. I was out in the sun for 12 hours today. Not fun. Between the heat and humidity, I thought I was going to pass out a few times. LOL

Take care,

Joe
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Monday, July 8th, 2024 AT 7:17 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
  • MEMBER
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Hey Joe! I had a quick question about what's highlighted in the picture I attached. This is the first time I've seen this requirement in all the repair info I've researched and just wanted to run it by you and see if this was crucial? I've not seen anyone do this finding TDC but it's in my manual. Any thoughts?
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Wednesday, July 10th, 2024 AT 1:59 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

If I had to guess, they added that to protect themselves. LOL I don't see any specific reason that would be listed unless they worried you would start it while working.

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, July 10th, 2024 AT 7:21 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
  • MEMBER
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Joe!

Hope the week is treating you well! I wanted to run these pics by you regarding TDC. My damper seems to make this easy, but my real question is can I be sure this is the compression stroke? Everything seems to line up including my distributor rotor on cylinder 1 (which is a little confusing because should this be off if I jumped timing?) Can you let me know your thoughts before I take the belt off and water pump and begin attacking this thing? As always, so much appreciated!
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Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 AT 3:39 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

The timing appears to be correct. Does the belt seem tight? In other words, does there seem to be enough tension and what is the condition of the belt? It could be stretched.

Let me know.

Joe
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Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 AT 7:38 PM
Tiny
AVALONIYEM2024
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Well, I'm in the process of getting to the timing chain to further inspect. Removed alternator, water pump etc. I'm down to the crankshaft pulley but I am scratching my head at something. If it's so important for me to be at TDC, how would I keep it there during removal of crankshaft pulley and harmonic balancer? Wont that just turn the engine and change the timing again or is that not applicable because the drive belt is off? I'm sorry if this question seems obvious but this is my first go at something like this. Thanks!
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Wednesday, July 17th, 2024 AT 8:28 PM

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