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Misfire

Tiny
DIVIDES
  • MEMBER
  • 2013 HYUNDAI SANTA FE
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 174,000 MILES
Bought it with a misfire. First it was on all of them plus a p0106 for map. Cleared all codes only one left was cylinder 3. Had an extra coil, replaced it, went away. After 30 miles and 2 on/off cycles it came back as a pending code. Do these have common issues with injectors? 2.4l.
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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021 AT 3:28 PM

33 Replies

Tiny
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Saw this, is this possible? Meaning firing order of 1, 3, 4, 2 and so it could be cylinder number 4 that is bad?
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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021 AT 3:53 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Interesting one. I ran through the manuals and found nothing as far as firing order or cylinder identification. I would have thought, like you, this is crazy. LOL

So, after finding nothing, I went to the powertrain management schematics. Believe it or not, the ignition coils are at different locations based on if the vehicle has a smart key or not. Ugh! I can't believe it either.

I attached what I found in the schematic. In theory, cylinders 1-4 are as we know them to be. However, the coil can be located in different cylinders. (I don't even know if that makes sense to me) LOL

Take a look at the schematic and let me know your thoughts. Also, I went with a 2.4L 4 cylinder. There is a 2.0 turbo. If I got the wrong one, let me know.

Take care,

Joe
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Tuesday, November 23rd, 2021 AT 8:50 PM
Tiny
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So, my misfire on 3 would be ignition coil 2 counting from left. With a smart immobilizer they mean a fob I am guessing.
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Wednesday, November 24th, 2021 AT 5:24 AM
Tiny
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I switched coils between 2nd and 3rd but it's still there. The fact that all were misfiring and that MAP p106 was there before I am sure means something. None pop up when check engine light come on now but maybe it takes a while for them to do.
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Wednesday, November 24th, 2021 AT 7:28 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Yes, to your question about the FOB. If the misfire didn't move, it could be a few things such as lower compression in that cylinder, a faulty fuel injector, or an issue with the MAP.

The intake air temperature sensor is part of the MAP. If you have a live data scan tool, see if the reading from it seems possible. Also, let me know what the short-term fuel trims are.

One other thought. Disconnect the MAP and see what happens. It should go into a pre-programmed setting to allow it to run. It should also stop a misfire if the sensor is the cause.

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Wednesday, November 24th, 2021 AT 9:29 PM
Tiny
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Disconnected the MAP and it was worse.
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Thursday, November 25th, 2021 AT 7:31 AM
Tiny
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Okay, are you able to get the short-term fuel trims? Also, did you take notice of the IAT signal?

Let me know.

Joe
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Thursday, November 25th, 2021 AT 6:19 PM
Tiny
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I will get fuel trims. What you mean by take notice? You mean get the value from scanner?
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Thursday, November 25th, 2021 AT 8:23 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

Let's see what the trims are. As far as the IAT, you are exactly correct, the values. Let me know what you find.

Take care and enjoy the last little bit of Thanksgiving left. LOL

Joe
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Thursday, November 25th, 2021 AT 8:34 PM
Tiny
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Here are some data. Also if the car is running and I pull each coil's harness the motor changes, all of them work, so this is weird.
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Friday, November 26th, 2021 AT 11:24 AM
Tiny
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Also, when the ignition is on, one of the wires is ground and the other shows nothing, I checked more than one harness and they were the same, once I start the car that ground becomes battery power on both harnesses I checked.
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Friday, November 26th, 2021 AT 11:31 AM
Tiny
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If you delete code and rev up the motor it feels good that's why I think it's just strange. Like no misfire at all once code is deleted and until it comes back on again.
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Friday, November 26th, 2021 AT 11:51 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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How long does it take for the code to return? Also, I wasn't able to see results on the scanner, just the headings.

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, November 26th, 2021 AT 8:56 PM
Tiny
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Sometimes fee miles before the check engine light is back. I just rewatched the video clip, you couldn't see the values?
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Friday, November 26th, 2021 AT 9:11 PM
Tiny
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Hi,

I attached a pic of what I'm seeing. Take a look.

Joe
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Friday, November 26th, 2021 AT 10:17 PM
Tiny
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Strange, I sent a full view video.
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Saturday, November 27th, 2021 AT 6:45 AM
Tiny
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Took pictures and videos of all data, some may not apply.
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Saturday, November 27th, 2021 AT 2:45 PM
Tiny
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More.
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Saturday, November 27th, 2021 AT 2:54 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

I got it that time. LOL Interestingly, other than 300 misfires on the affected cylinder, I don't see anything that sends up a red flag.

By chance, have you checked engine compression? We may have a weak cylinder. If you look at the pic below, I feel the other things would cause more than a single cylinder to misfire. At this point, I would check compression. Here is a link that shows in general how it's done:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-engine-compression

Starting with pic 2, I provided the diagnostics specific to a cylinder 3 misfire. One of the tests is compression. The manufacturer's specs are in the test. I know some of these things you have already done. Also, one test includes the use of an oscilloscope. I'm hoping your scanner can do it.

Let me know your thoughts or if I can help in any way.

Joe

See pics below.

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Saturday, November 27th, 2021 AT 10:06 PM
Tiny
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Have not checked compression as if it was low I would think the misfire would be there all the time and not sometimes and wouldn't stop if I delete the code. But I will measure it. My scanner may have oscilloscope, I don't know if I will be able to measure it based on the description, I will try.
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Sunday, November 28th, 2021 AT 8:57 AM

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