Engine idles, but backfires

Tiny
TPA70
  • MEMBER
  • 1998 JEEP CHEROKEE
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 166,000 MILES
I replace the engine in this jeep with one from a 1997 year model. The old engine had a catastrophic failure. The replacement engine has to crank a while, but does start. It idles just great, but when any throttle is input it sputters and backfires. Any thoughts?
Tuesday, November 18th, 2008 AT 7:20 PM

44 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,885 POSTS
HI:
Can you tell if the backfire is through the intake or exhaust? Also, do you know how many miles were on it? My concern's are timing or burnt valves. Do you have a timing light you could check the ignition timing with?

It sounds like you have a clogged catalytic converter here is a guide to help you confirm the issue.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-test-a-catalytic-converter

Joe
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Tuesday, November 18th, 2008 AT 9:57 PM
Tiny
TPA70
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I can and will check timing. As far as where it backfires, sometimes out intake. Sometimes out exhaust. If you open the throttle rapidly, out the intake. If you open the throttle slowly and try to force the engine to accelerate, it runs very rough, almost like a misfire, then out the exhaust.
Thanks for your response.
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Wednesday, November 19th, 2008 AT 5:53 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi:
Also recheck the plug wires. Make sure you have them on right. This guide can help as well.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/engine-backfires-while-running

Joe
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Wednesday, November 19th, 2008 AT 9:00 AM
Tiny
TPA70
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Timing is about 6 to 8 before at idle and goes up to around 14 or so when accelerated to about 1800 to 2000 rpm. This doesnt sound so far advanced as to make it backfire, I am thinking a vacuum leak, so this is the direction I am going. Got anymore ideas?

I appreciate the input about the plug wires, but if they were wrong, it would run crappy or not at all. This thing idles beautiful. Just cant push the gas.
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Wednesday, November 19th, 2008 AT 4:26 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi:
I'm going to speak with a Jeep specialest. I will get back with you or he will.

Joe
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Wednesday, November 19th, 2008 AT 10:09 PM
Tiny
JNOVACK
  • MECHANIC
  • 723 POSTS
These are what to inspect first althow my manuals say timing is not ajustable it is ajusted through the pcm let us know what you have also check the position of #1 cylender put #1 at top dead center on compression pull distibutor cap see if rotor is at #1 position also check the cam and crank sensors they tell pcm when to inject fuel and when to spark also how high is rpm just after start with foot off peddle
1 Inspect Ignition Timing Incorrectly adjusted engine timing.
2 Inspect Timing Set Slipped timing chain or worn timing gear(s).
3 Inspect Distributor Cap Loose or cracked distributor cap
4 Inspect Rotor - Ignition Damaged, worn, or corroded ignition rotor.
5 Inspect Distributor Cap And Rotor Kit Loose, cracked, or worn distributor cap and ignition rotor.
6 Inspect Wireset Damaged, worn, or deteriorating spark plug or coil wire(s).
7 Inspect Spark Plug Fouled, damaged or broken spark plug(s).
8 Inspect Firing Order Spark plug wire(s) not connected in correct firing order sequence
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Thursday, November 20th, 2008 AT 5:35 PM
Tiny
TPA70
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Thanks for all the great advice. I worked on it a few hours this evening and this is what I found.

First. Went through timing again, all correct, on TDC rotor is at #1 dead on.

Second. The engine is a 97 and the truck is a 98. I compared the distributor that came with the engine (used engine) to the 98 out of the vehicle. The cam pick up that rotates is not clocked the same. So I put the 97 distributor in the vehicle. But this made no difference in how it ran.

Third. Timing at idle is about 8 degrees before TDC. Sound pretty correct. This did not change with either distributor, stays the same.

Fourth. Found forward O2 sensor connector very dirty, cob webbs and all sorts of stuff. Cleaned this out and THE INTAKE BACKFIRE IS GONE. Punch the gas and no backfire.

Now. At about fifteen hundred RPM it gets very rough will popping out the exhaust. Sounds like very rich mixture? Why at fifteen hundred RPM and not before?

Have any advice on what would make it pop out the exhaust and run very rough above 1500 RPM?
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Thursday, November 20th, 2008 AT 6:14 PM
Tiny
JNOVACK
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If 02 sensor looked that bad how do the plugs dist. Cap rotor and wires look like
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Friday, November 21st, 2008 AT 11:58 AM
Tiny
TPA70
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New plugs, rotor and dist cap.
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Friday, November 21st, 2008 AT 4:11 PM
Tiny
TPA70
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After some more troubleshooting today.

It does not backfire out the intake at all.
It runs great until about 1400 - 1500 RPM, then it begins to miss, keep going and you get unburnt fuel popping out the exhaust.

Cant tell if the miss is from ignition or too much fuel. I think ignition. I changed coil and plug wires to some known good from a running vehicle. No change. Changed all plugs, no change.
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Friday, November 21st, 2008 AT 5:24 PM
Tiny
JNOVACK
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It is and ignition timing issue on you need to check the crank shaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor and the throdle posiotn sensor they tell when it should spark and fuel the crank shaft position sensor is on left side of bell houseing of trans
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Friday, November 21st, 2008 AT 6:06 PM
Tiny
LES WALKER
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I have followed this post because my jeep is doing the same thing it ended up being a clogged cat converter FYI it cost me $560.00 for a new one all fixed I love this site.
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Tuesday, December 4th, 2012 AT 5:04 PM
Tiny
YELODUSTER
  • MEMBER
  • 5 POSTS
  • 1998 JEEP CHEROKEE
I have a 1998 Jeep Cherokee with the 4.0L I6. It had a problem where intermittantly it surged and sometimes backfired on acceleration. The more the throttle was depressed the worse the symptom became.

When it first started doing this I discovered that the fuel pressure was sometimes as low as 20 PSI. I changed the fuel pump/filter assembly and the problem disappeared for about 2K miles.

It has now come back but only on moderate throttle. I have checked the fuel pressure at the fuel rail and it appears to always be approximately 50 PSI.

This time the symptom is slightly different. If full (or almost full) throttle is applied during acceleration it accelerates properly and will then continue to run fine under all conditions until the next time the engine idles for an extended period (like at a stop light) or ran at very low throttle for a while like when in 4WD on level but rough surfaces such as a field or if the engine has been turned off.

It appeared that maybe the IAC solenoid was sticking open. I cleaned the solenoid and the the IA port. Again the problem went away for a few days then returned. So I changed the IAC solenoid. This did not change the symptom.

So, as it stands, I have a new fuel pump and fuel filter, a new IAC solenoid and a new rear oxygen sensor (changed for another reason). I still have the problem.

I had the codes read and they didn't show anything.

Any thoughts?
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Wednesday, January 8th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
GRICHARDS
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The surging immediately made me think of fuel pump, but you've already addressed that. Ignition timing could also cause your symptoms, but if you have the Inline6, no timing adjustments required. So, the first thing to look at that would cause BOTH problems is a VACUUM Leak (hose or intake manifold), get a diagram for hose routing and check hoses - might be one pasted iside your hood, dealer may give you a free copy, or get a Haynes repair manual for your model/year #50010 84-99 jeep cherokee for about $15.00 at a locl auto parts store. If you don't already have one, I recommend highly - lots of useful info. Chilton also makes a manual, but it's not as user-friendly although it contains info that the haynes may not cover as well. Hope this helps.
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Wednesday, January 8th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
YELODUSTER
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I bought a code scanner and even though it had scanned clean right after I had a new fuel pump installed it now showed codes for both O2 sensors. I knew that the front sensor was old so I replaced it.

Immediately the Jeep ran better but still surged under the same conditions described above. Sometimes it showed a O2 sensor heater code and sometimes it didn't.

To make a long story short. There is a fuse that is only used for the O2 sensors. This fuse was blown. I replaced the fuse and NO MORE SURGE.
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Wednesday, January 8th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
GRICHARDS
  • MECHANIC
  • 57 POSTS
A FUUUUUSE? Just an inky-dinky FUSE? Man. I'll be filing this info away for future reference as to symptoms and causes - Thank you for responding! This is how we learn from each other! O2 sensors send a voltage to the computer based on oxygen content of exhaust gas, the computer adjusts the fuel/air mix. So, no O2 sensor input sends the computer into freaksville by sending zero volts instead of the 0 to 1 volts the computer usually sees.(Just thinking out loud). My manual recommends replacing O2 sensor every 82,500 miles.
A fuse? DUH. Makes me want to do a Carlos Mencia - "I'm a DEE-DEE-DEE!"
Thank you for getting back!
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Wednesday, January 8th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
YELODUSTER
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  • 5 POSTS
Maybe I didn't give enough information.

The fuse is for the O2 heater circuits. So the O2 heaters didn't work. Anytime the computer called for open loop operation and ignored O2 sensor input the Jeep ran fine. These times include cold start and WOT.

The problem presented itself when the computer called for closed loop and the O2 sensors were too cold. These times include idle and part throttle after warm up. If the engine load is great enough the exhaust stream temperature brings the O2 sensors to acceptable temperature and things work great.

In my case, I was in very rough country off road and a bush caught the leads for the rear O2 sensor and tore them out. While they were flopping around the heater wire shorted and blew the fuse. This started a long string of errors on my part trying to resolve this. I don't regret changing any of the components. The miles on the Jeep dictate that they be changed anyway. It was sure frustrating though!

Thanks for the ideas. They were good thoughts. Glad I didn't have to do that too!
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Wednesday, January 8th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
GRICHARDS
  • MECHANIC
  • 57 POSTS
Thanks for getting back with a technician's - based response! I did some digging and found what causes closed loop and open loop modes, plus that the O2 sensor will operate in a programmed default mode/value if your fuse problem occurs. Not used to that level of detail - I'm an ex-submariner who used to work on communications encryption gear, and I appreciate hearing the details every once in a while! Lots of Luck!
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Wednesday, January 8th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
98765
  • MEMBER
  • 1 POST
  • 1998 JEEP CHEROKEE
  • 4.0L
  • 6 CYL
  • 4WD
  • AUTOMATIC
Started with stalling cranking for long periods of time and wot to get started
once started would run rough somtimes fine.
Then stall when going to take off and not starting again unless wot hard to get started.
New distributer cap wires plugs, tps, etc nothing worked.
I then took the injectors out with rail cleaned best I could, found carbon build up where injectors enter the manifold cleaned & now will start no problem idle perfectly hit the gas revs fine.
But when driving after 2nd gear shift engine starts to bog down looses power really bad & backfires through the intake manifold, I can w.O.T it and it clears up until trying to maintain road speeds.
I checked the fuel pressure with a gauge reads 49 psi @ idel & stays almost the same during driving, when I shut the engine of with key of the pressure almost instantly starts to fall.
Drops to below 30psi in under 3 minutes, hanes manual says its the fuel pressure regulator, this model is equipped with a vacuume assited pressure regulator, could this be the reason for the backfire and loss of power very costly want to make sure this is what wrong before dumping another 100 into it
thanks jim
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Wednesday, January 8th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM (Merged)
Tiny
HMAC300
  • MECHANIC
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Pressure is ok as far as what range it is. Fule pressure should not drop to less than 24 psi with in 5 minutes if it does the pump module is bad which is in the tank. Backfiring can be caused by leaking injectors, vacuum leak etc.
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Wednesday, January 8th, 2020 AT 1:11 PM (Merged)

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