Head gasket

Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
  • MEMBER
  • 2005 HONDA CIVIC
  • 1.7L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 281,000 MILES
Hello. My car was loosing coolant I could not see it, just smelled it. Would have to add water about once a month to begin with. One day, I was caught in slow traffic, car went to red zone for about four minutes, pulled over let cool. Did this three times before getting home, only stayed in red, for a couple minutes, each time between cool downs. So yesterday, after the leak is worse, I discovered water dripping from bottom of radiator area. Been using straight water for about one month. So I know the radiator is bad. And, the radiator cooling fan has not worked in two months, but it has been winter time. No milky look on oil cap. Today I followed instructions with cap off, let car warm up and watched for bubbles per video. It would only one bubble about every thirty seconds at most. No stream of bubbles. Have not done any other tests yet. Now, when I know I need to add water, I pull over and carefully remove cap. As I add water, lots of air comes out of radiator, until I get a smooth flow of water in radiator. Always air, when I have to add water. I am getting new radiator, fan, and the right fluid tomorrow and not driving anywhere hardly until then because the car has always been taken car up, using no oil, with 282,000 miles. I have just recently let this slide, but now I am worried about the HG. But considering right now, I have a broken cooling fan, a leaky radiator, and using straight water, would you think this occasional bubble would be natural, under the circumstances? Or should I be worried about even one or two occasional bubbles every thirty seconds or so?

Thanks so much! Jerry
Friday, February 9th, 2018 AT 5:26 PM

14 Replies

Tiny
STEVE W.
  • MECHANIC
  • 13,465 POSTS
Getting that hot a few times has likely started the gasket on the road to failure. You can test that with a combustion gas test. It sounds like it is just starting to fail.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/head-gasket-blown-test

For the fan, I would start by checking the fuses and hope you find a blown one.

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Friday, February 9th, 2018 AT 6:56 PM
Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
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Steve, thank you. Concerning the occasional bubble. Would that be expected given using straight water, with a leaking radiator and minus one cooling fan? Or should there be not even one bubble coming up?
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Saturday, February 10th, 2018 AT 4:43 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Once filled there should not ever be bubbles. Other than the radiator cap or recovery tank cap the system is supposed to be sealed so no place for air to get in.

I would do the combustion gas test. The pressure test would not really tell you much unless you plugged both radiator hoses due to the leak in the radiator.
Plus you could pull the spark plugs and look to see if one looks steam cleaned. Even a small amount of water/coolant into a cylinder will clean up carbon and deposits. So if you remove the plugs and all look dirty except one that looks very clean you found the problem.

I would not even bother with the fan or radiator until you test to see if it has a bad head gasket and decide if you want to repair it or not.
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 7:34 AM
Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
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Steve, thanks again. I am including a picture of all four plugs. Remember, I have straight water right now, due to the leak. Straight water for about three weeks. I have a couple more pictures at a different angle if you need to see. Let me know what you think about the plugs, and I promise, I will not bother you anymore!
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 9:37 AM
Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
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Another picture of plugs.
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 9:40 AM
Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
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But I guess I have to ask, even if the plugs look normal, is that a sure fire test?
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 9:41 AM
Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
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Steve, here is a better picture with more detail. Please let me now it this looks normal or not. Thanks.
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 10:21 AM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Not a bother, this is what we do here. Try to gather as much data as possible to give a correct answer. The plug I circled looks like is has some build up on the electrodes and lass carbon in the barrel than the others. A small gasket leak could cause that or it could just be a trick of lighting and plug position. As for it being a fool proof test, it depends on how bad the leak is. With modern gas having alcohol mixed into it that can skew the results if it is a small leak because the alcohol will already have water in it and the extra can still be absorbed so the effect is harder to see. That is why you do the other tests as well.
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 1:28 PM
Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
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Okay, well, now the latest news: I just got back from an oil changing place up the road, these guys I know there put the car in the changing pit and examined it. They discovered the radiator is leaking all over the place. Like all across the top from the left to the right, I mean too many pin hole leaks to count. I could stand there with a good light and see the water oozing out. And I think at the bottom area as well. So having found that with the radiator, could that explain the infrequent bubbles about one bubble every two to twenty seconds. Now, there are no bubbles until the water in the radiator gets hot. And when the heater is on, the bubbles seem to go away. To make a long story short, now that I know this radiator is really leaking badly, can that be the bubble mystery?
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 2:10 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Once the water is hot it will pressurize the system. In order for air to get in at that point it has to be under higher pressure than the water.
However, it is possible you have a trapped air pocket if the water keeps running low and the bubbles stop completely.

You basically have two options, replace the radiator and fix the fan controls and hope the head gasket isn't an issue, or test for combustion gas in the cooling system and go from there.
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 2:16 PM
Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
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So basically what you are saying is, the fact that there were bubbles, no matter how seldom, the bubbles could still be caused by the leaky head gasket, regardless of the bad radiator.
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 2:23 PM
Tiny
STEVE W.
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Yes. There should be no bubbles, unless you let it run real low and then you may get some, but they should stop very fast. The thing is that you have gotten that engine hot and most of the engines used these days do not handle that very well.
The combustion leak test should tell you either way. Another better test is to use an exhaust gas analyzer, You stick the test wand into the radiator or overflow can and if it detects anything you know you have a bad head gasket because the two systems should never be combined. But not a lot of shops have those on hand.

If it was me I would get a test kit. Many of the Advance/Autozone type stores have tool loaner programs. You "buy" the tool and the solution that goes with it. Run the test and return the tool and you get the price of the tool back. Below is what the tool looks like, they are about $50.00 to $75.00 depending on where you buy it. This one is on Amazon.

There is an option that might be worth a try if you discover it is a very small leak. There is a product called Blue Devil head gasket sealer. I have used it as well as know others who have and had it work. However, I would not use it unless you test it and discover it does have a gasket leak.
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 6:21 PM
Tiny
CLOCKMAN1972
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Steve, I am trying hard here to get some encouraging news from you but you are like the 'Grim Reaper' LOL!

Anyway, I am going to find out once and for all, this coming week when I get money on Wednesday. But Steve, about the bubbles. As the bubbles appear, the water level goes down. I read that is a good sign. I mean, not with each bubble, but the level drops from the very top of the spout, down to about an inch or more below the spout as a few bubbles pass. Now, in the morning, when I go out there I will have to add about a pint or more water just from sitting all night. Maybe more than a pint. Maybe two. I am going to look at the bubble thing again tomorrow, keep in mind, one of the fans does not work. Normally, if the fan worked it would come on at a stand still idle. I was thinking because of no fan, the water gets hotter than it should, without the aid of the non working fan and because of that, the water begins to boil, am I wrong? And if I decide to use this Blue Devil stuff, is there a chance it will work for a long time, depending on the leak, of course? This is the last of the theories I have for you. After tonight, the next email will be after I put the fan and radiator on. Good night and thanks. Jerry
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Sunday, February 11th, 2018 AT 8:23 PM
Tiny
KHLOW2008
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HI Jerry,

Let me give you some hope here. I would suggest having the cooling system restored before you continue with the cylinder head etc. Once all leaks are stopped would you be able to correctly determine if everything is good. For this engine, the cylinder head gasket is of metal ply so based on what you have experienced, there is a possibility it has not been damaged yet. However it must be noted that it does not mean everything is ok, at least for now it is. Overheating for such engines usually do not fail immediately and if you start having problems a few months down the road, that should not be surprising.

You mentioned the occasional bubbles, it is possible for it to occur if the temperature is almost at operating temp, which is close to 100 C and this can result in bubbles. With coolant it should not occur, unless there are air still trapped in system.
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Tuesday, February 13th, 2018 AT 2:03 AM

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