Will not stay running

Tiny
BLESSING EWOBOR
  • MEMBER
  • 2010 TOYOTA SIENNA
  • 6 CYL
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 121,345 MILES
Good morning, the vehicle's engine will crank and start properly but shuts down after few seconds of starting. I scanned it, here are the few codes found on it memory.
Saturday, December 19th, 2020 AT 12:34 AM

16 Replies

Tiny
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Both the current codes are telling you that there is an issue with the starting function which is why it is shutting down.

The likely causes of this are low battery charge, fuel issue, or an ECM.

So let's do a couple things. First load test the battery and here is a guide for that:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/car-battery-load-test

Then we need to check the fuel pressure because I suspect the fuel pump is loosing voltage which is why it is shutting off.

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-fuel-system-pressure-and-regulator

If this proves out then I would bet the fuel pump relay is the issue. So here is a guide on how to test the relay or you can just swap it:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

let us know what happens and we can go from there. Thanks
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Saturday, December 19th, 2020 AT 2:20 PM
Tiny
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The battery voltage is okay, and the fuel pump is working perfectly. But could I have circuit diagram showing the fuel pump relay and the ECU?
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Saturday, December 19th, 2020 AT 7:27 PM
Tiny
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Okay. We need to check one thing with the pump. Make sure you have constant power through the stall event. What I have seen is the relay will cause momentary loss of voltage then when the vehicle stalls, power comes back. Just monitor the voltage going to the pump from the relay as shown in the wiring below. They run it through a resistor and then back to the relay before it goes to the pump so we just need to make sure the pump is getting consistent voltage.

Thanks
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Sunday, December 20th, 2020 AT 8:15 AM
Tiny
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Thank you, but they are looking blur. Could you help me to divide the last two diagram and resend?
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Sunday, December 20th, 2020 AT 11:55 AM
Tiny
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Sorry. The last two diagrams were just a further out view of the first two. So the first two diagrams attached at of the complete circuit. The second one shows the blue wire from the ECM up to the relay. I attached them again below. Are these blurry as well?
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Sunday, December 20th, 2020 AT 5:02 PM
Tiny
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Good evening, I bypassed the relay by connecting a wire from the positive battery to the fuel pump, I started the vehicle's engine it work properly, no more shutting down. Therefore the problem is between the PCM and the relay. For me to check the power at the relay, which would give a good results? Testing with the ignition switch position at "on" without engine running or when the engine is running.
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Monday, December 21st, 2020 AT 11:18 AM
Tiny
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From the diagram sent, it seems that point 2 at the relay is power (12v).
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Monday, December 21st, 2020 AT 11:43 AM
Tiny
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Okay. the way to test this is two ways. First the relay. You can either swap the relay out and if it doesn't work, it is safe to assume the PCM is the issue. Or you can follow this test on a relay:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-check-an-electrical-relay-and-wiring-control-circuit

The other way to test this is to test terminal 1 to see if the PCM is grounding the relay. The way this works is power is supplied through pin 2 as you said, and it is an open circuit until the PCM provides ground through pin 1. Then this energizes the relay and it closes the contact and power is sent through pin 5 to the resistor and back to the relay to pin 4 where is jumps over to pin 3 and out to the pump.

So we need to test this by removing the relay and putting your test light clamp on battery positive or a 12 volt source. Then touch the probe to terminal one and turn the key on. I suspect it will ground it for a brief moment but it should stay steady. If it stays steady then the relay is the issue.

Let me know if this makes sense or not. Thanks
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Monday, December 21st, 2020 AT 7:30 PM
Tiny
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It makes sense. Carrying out the test as you described, clamping one side of the test light on battery positive terminal and the other side on terminal 1 of the relay, the test light didn't light up, meaning that the PCM is not grounding the relay (with ignition switch at "on" position). Ideally, if all the circuit are functioning, for how long would the PCM ground the relay (with the ignition switch at "on" position without attempt of starting the engine)?
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Tuesday, December 22nd, 2020 AT 11:41 AM
Tiny
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The fuel pump is normally run for about 3 seconds at key on just to prime the pump. Clearly it is not run continuously but if it does not come on at all then I would agree that the PCM sounds like the issue. However, just to make sure, crank the engine and see if the pump comes on at all. Clearly if the vehicle starts and shuts off then it had to get some fuel so we must be missing something.
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Tuesday, December 22nd, 2020 AT 7:02 PM
Tiny
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The vehicle didn't start, so it is obvious that the PCM is faulty. Would it be a good idea, if steady power is supply to the fuel pump (pump comes on when ignition switch is "on" position)? Can the PCM be repaired or replacing it would be better?
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Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020 AT 3:42 PM
Tiny
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I would not supply your own power to the fuel supply because you want the PCM to control this mostly because in the event of an accident you don't want the pump to continue pumping fuel. You want the PCM to shut it off.

As for being repaired, I would do an internet search for this vehicle because there are ton of services out there that can open them up and repair the circuit board. I am not aware of any for this vehicle but I am sure they are out there.
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Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020 AT 6:19 PM
Tiny
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Okay, thank you very much.
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Wednesday, December 23rd, 2020 AT 8:14 PM
Tiny
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Compliment of the season.
Looking at one the diagrams you sent earlier, looking at the fuel pump relay at pin no 4, does it mean that the fuel pump will function without pin no 1 not completing the circuit?
It seems that it does need the ECM.
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Friday, December 25th, 2020 AT 10:16 AM
Tiny
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It does not. The ECM grounds the relay and closes the relay which moves the arrow from pin 4 to pin 5. When this is closed, power that is supplied to pin 3 is sent through pin 5 through the resistor and back to pin 4 but it does not go in the relay. If you look closely where I put a red arrow, the voltage goes to the Black/red wire that is below pin 3 of the relay but does not actually have the arrow connecting the relay pin 3 to the black/red wire that feeds the pump.

You need to follow the lines that are drawn here in order to follow the power flow. Take a look at it and I am sure you will make sense of that. Let me know if you don't and I will enlarge it more and draw out the power flow so you can follow that.

Merry Christmas!
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Friday, December 25th, 2020 AT 7:09 PM
Tiny
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Thank you, compliment of the season.
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Friday, December 25th, 2020 AT 8:03 PM

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