Codes P0440 and P0441, engine stalls or shuts off at low RPM's

Tiny
KTRAVIS
  • MEMBER
  • 2004 DODGE INTREPID
  • 2.7L
  • 6 CYL
  • 2WD
  • AUTOMATIC
  • 45,000 MILES
I've got a strange issue. The car runs great, except when the engine is idle or I'm going really slow, like below 10 mph slow. When the RPM's gets low, the car will stutter and sometimes just fully shut off. This used to only happen after filling it up with a full tank of gas, but recently it has been doing it no matter how much gas is in the car and we're unsure why. We do have a check engine light with error codes p0440 and p0441 I believe.
Wednesday, July 22nd, 2020 AT 6:59 AM

8 Replies

Tiny
KASEKENNY
  • MECHANIC
  • 18,907 POSTS
These codes are for the EVAP emission system. This is pretty typical when the purge valve is sticking allowing too much fuel vapor into the engine and it causes a stutter or stall.

I attached the testing for the code P0440 which will lead you to the issue however, I suspect you need a purge solenoid valve. I attached that process as well.

Also, you should check your charcoal canister for raw fuel in it as this would be the root cause of the purge failing. Basically, the raw fuel gets into the canister and breaks down the charcoal. Then that clogs the purge solenoid and causes is to allow too much fuel vapor into the engine.

Let me know if you have questions. Thanks
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Wednesday, July 22nd, 2020 AT 4:14 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
Hi,

Interestingly, both of these codes are related to the evaporative emissions system, specifically the canister purge system. The hard part with this is this. There is a purge valve solenoid under the hood of the vehicle. When it is commanded to open, it allows fumes from the fuel tank to enter the intake manifold to be burned. If you look at pic 1 below, it shows an approx location. Pic 2 shows the solenoid. It is mounted to the air filter box. I need you to check that vacuum supply and make sure the hoses are good and connected. I circled the solenoid and put AF on the air filter box.

Next, is the actual evap canister. It is located near the fuel tank. If you look at pic 2, it shows the location and then I circled several vacuum hoses. Any of these hoses could be disconnected, damaged, pinched, or missing and causing this issue. So that is what needs checked.

Now, here is what I suggest. First, check for a damaged vacuum hose or any leaks. If nothing is found, then I recommend having the EVAP system smoke tested. Basically, a machine pumps smoke into the system at a very low pressure. If there is a leak, smoke will come out.

Also, the idea that there is an idle issue and stalling, it is very possible that the purge solenoid is stuck open or there is an engine vacuum leak from one of the hoses I mentioned.

Please feel free to let me know if you have other questions. Also, if you have a chance, let me know what you find.

Take care,
Joe
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Wednesday, July 22nd, 2020 AT 4:22 PM
Tiny
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Thank you guys for the responses! We will look into these and see what we can do! I'd really like to keep my car in good shape since it's under 50,000 miles and everything apart from that one issue is perfect in it. Another thing I want to ask, is this an issue that someone who is relatively decent with cars but not at, say mechanic level could fix at home, or should I take it to a Dodge dealership or mechanic and see what they can do for me? I myself am not someone who is great with cars but my dad is the one we usually go to, haha. Thanks again!
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Thursday, July 23rd, 2020 AT 8:41 AM
Tiny
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Also, for replacing the purge solenoid valve, what replacement would you suggest? Like a Mopar brand, a Dorman, or should I just try and find an original?
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Thursday, July 23rd, 2020 AT 8:44 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
  • 109,755 POSTS
If the solenoid under the hood is needing replaced, you shouldn't have any trouble. At the canister, that is difficult because it's above the fuel tank.

As far as brand, Mopar parts will be the best for the vehicle. However, price may make it crazy to purchase. Dorman is a great name in automotive, so I wouldn't worry if that is the one you get. I use their parts all the time without issue.

Let me know what you find.

Joe
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Thursday, July 23rd, 2020 AT 11:45 AM
Tiny
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Quick update for you guys: we took my car to a Dodge dealer to have them diagnose the issues. What they told me is pretty much what you guys said, the purge solenoid and vapor canister most likely need to be replaced. They also said the fuel line may also be damaged but they aren't 100% sure because they were unable to replicate the issue I have been having. (The car seems to have a mind of its own and only stalls when it wants to haha) They wanted to charge me about $1,400.00 total for fixing both those problems and I said no because that's practically more then what the car is worth unfortunately. My dad is going to attempt to replace the purge solenoid at some point and I'll keep you updated!
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Tuesday, July 28th, 2020 AT 3:25 PM
Tiny
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Also, just to make sure because it seems to be hard to find the correct part for my purge solenoid valve. would this be similar to what I need?

https://www.autozone.com/emission-control-and-exhaust/canister-purge-valve/dorman-canister-purge-valve-911-212/764338_0_0
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Tuesday, July 28th, 2020 AT 4:14 PM
Tiny
KASEKENNY
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Yes. That appears correct. The Mopar part number is 4591733AA for this part. I agree that price sounds high so it may be a good idea to get a second price. However, they are not hard to replace. I attached the instructions if you need them.

Thanks
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Tuesday, July 28th, 2020 AT 7:27 PM

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