Engine spins, no fire, no start

Tiny
COWBOYROCKS
  • MEMBER
  • 1998 CHEVROLET S-10
  • 2.2L
  • 4 CYL
  • 2WD
  • MANUAL
  • 300,200 MILES
Pickup was parked for about 3 years. I decided to get it running again, needed to replace gas tank cause I hit a rock and put a hole in tank when I parked it so I replaced tank and pump. I started it and it ran but when I checked water there was no water but I didn't run it long enough at do any damage. I put water in only to find out the head was cracked so I had to take head off and replace it with a new rebuilt. I then put new injectors in it as well as lifters and push rods. Started it and it ran but #4 cylinder was dead. Had spark but it was missing on #4. I took wire off to find out. Ran the same with wire on as it did with it off. I did a compression test all had around 150psi. I replaced #4 injector again, but now there's no fire. I replaced crank sensor, cam sensor, ignition control module, replaced timing chain and gears, replaced coils, replaced ignition switch, put a different engine control module, wouldn't start so I put original back on, checked all the grounds, grounds were good, check wires on the ICM, has 12 volts and ground is good but the signal wire doesn't show 0 hertz with just the key on and cranking its all over the place. This is with new ICM so I put old ICM back on thinking maybe I got a bad ICM still same voltage. I checked new crank sensor thinking maybe I got a bad one but if I check it out right it works. I've wiggled wires, checked wires, found 2 wires buy the gas tank that were broke I soldered them together and still didn't start. I've checked fuses about 20 different times. When I first worked on this thing I was using my battery pack cause I didn't want to buy a battery tell I knew it would run. I have since then put in a new battery. It ran fine when I parked it, it ran before I replaced the head and after. After I put new timing chain in and before I put timing chain cover on it started but I shut it off right away. Put cover on and it wouldn't start, no fire. Then I thought I would take crank sensor out and check it, when I took old sensor out I broke it and by the time I had it out I damaged block somewhat so I put a little silicone around it so it wouldn't leak so I thought maybe I wasn't careful enough and got some on the end of the sensor and there was very little on it, I cleaned it off put it back in and it started and it ran for about 25 - 30 seconds, it stopped on its own, and now it don't start again, no fire. I'm to the end, other then a broke wire or something not making contact I'm lost. Check engine light ain't on and there was one code had something to do with EVAP to much pressure in tank, that had to be an old code cause the tank leaked so how can there be to much pressure in tank. Only other thing with new fuel pump in tank and sending unit my fuel gauge isn't showing right. Shows full and it's probably 1/4 -1/2 at the most. As much as I know pump is working cause there's pressure on the schrader valve on the fuel line. Gas shoots out when key is on. It's like it has got spark when ever it wants to and starts and stops right away.
Saturday, January 11th, 2020 AT 9:55 AM

18 Replies

Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
  • MECHANIC
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Hi,

Do you have access to a live data scanner? If so, crank it and check to see if there is an RPM signal. Also, see if it will start for a second or two with starting fluid.

Let me know.
Joe
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Saturday, January 11th, 2020 AT 5:20 PM
Tiny
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I have a cheap hand held scanner that only reads codes and it should erase codes. And it don't have any spark so starting fluid won't do nothing, I did use carburetor cleaner, and I think I did maybe spray some ether in it, not sure. I took wires off by coils and grab on to coils with my bare hands while someone was in cranking and there ain't nothing. There's got to be a way to test sensors and ICM and ECM with a multi meter to see if there good, without them being hooked up to engine. Even tho I replaced them doesn't mean I didn't get a bad one. Everything I read they always say the crank sensor is the problem but when I check it its good so then after that its the ICM. When I check that it has 12 volts, ground is good, everything tests good tell I get to the 7x reference signal, the purple with white stripe is suppose to have 0 hurts with just the key on, well this has something like 30 hertz and while cranking its suppose to have 13 - 23 Hertz and it has over 100 if I'm reading meter right., That's where I'm lost. I have someone in local shop that has a scanner but I think it only reads codes to. But I'm sure it's better than mine.
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Saturday, January 11th, 2020 AT 11:31 PM
Tiny
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Can I check if there is a RPM signal with a multi meter tester?
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Sunday, January 12th, 2020 AT 3:33 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Are there any codes stored? I realize there was an EVAP one, but has anything new come up?

The idea that the purple wire with the white tracer has voltage with koeo shouldn't be. That wire goes direct to the powertrain control module reference signal for the crankshaft position sensor. That shouldn't have a reference signal until the engine is cranked.

Here is what I suggest. If you can check for an RPM or crank senser signal using a scanner, great. I have to be honest, I'm not sure how you could it with a DMM. If the sensor is good, then we have to check at the PCM. I would disconnect the crank sensor. Next, disconnected the plug at the PCM to make sure something isn't making contact with that pin. If it is good, check the PCM ckp reference pin to see if it has power koeo. If it does, I suspect the PCM has an internal short.

I attached 3 pics below of the wiring schematic. I followed the wire in question back to the PCM as a reference for you.

Let me know.

Joe
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Sunday, January 12th, 2020 AT 5:29 PM
Tiny
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Just noticed your message. I did change the brain box with another one from different pickup. Only difference is mine has a 5 speed manual trans and has no A/C and the one I got it from is an auto transmission and has air. It should still work I think? Not sure. Numbers on the outside were the same. But anyway it never started, no spark so I put mine back on. I'll go see if I can trace the wire and check it out.
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Monday, January 13th, 2020 AT 12:59 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Sounds like a plan. Let me know what you find.

Take care,
Joe
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Monday, January 13th, 2020 AT 6:55 PM
Tiny
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Well, I checked again on D wire the purple and white, by the ICM, it has 0 hertz with just the key on and 0 starting, different from when I did it before. And unless there's another purple and white wire coming out of the ECM, I checked that one and there's 37. Whatever with just the key on and when its cranking there's 100 something, it looks like one long wire going over to the ICM with no splices or connections unless it goes over to the fuse box, and then to the ICM, but the fuse is good so I don't know. I'm about to give up. Been working on and off on this darn thing for about 5 months now. Getting on my nerves. Jon
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Tuesday, January 14th, 2020 AT 3:58 PM
Tiny
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Also there's no other codes.
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Tuesday, January 14th, 2020 AT 3:58 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Have you ever gotten your hands on a live data scanner to confirm an RPM signal?
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Tuesday, January 14th, 2020 AT 6:43 PM
Tiny
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No I haven't unless I go buy one, I don't know who has one around here. I suppose I could haul it to some garage some place. I live in the middle of no mans land. Do you know of a good cheap one? Probably won't use it but this one time.
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Wednesday, January 15th, 2020 AT 7:24 AM
Tiny
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You know anything about the Bluedriver LSB2 pro OBDll scan tool for android or I phone? It's like $100.00. I have been looking at sever different ones and I also kinda quite looking cause of a small problem, it's called money shortage.
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Wednesday, January 15th, 2020 AT 7:38 AM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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I got one from my sister in law for Christmas. I haven't tried using it. She got it for me to have in the car all the time. I still depend on the one I use at the shop. I have to be honest, you should be able to get a half decent one at a parts store for that amount. Have you checked?

Joe
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Thursday, January 16th, 2020 AT 3:55 PM
Tiny
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Yes, but there just code readers. That's what I got. So, a while back I took the crank sensor out cleaned it off because I wasn't sure maybe I got some silicone on it and there was but just a speck. So I cleaned it off and put it back in and started it, it ran for about 25-30 seconds and stopped on its own. Well today I figured I'ed try it again, it started but stopped right away. Took it out again cleaned it shot some brake cleaner in hole because I figured maybe who knows there's stuff on that thing on crank what ever it's called. Well, it started to start and backfire and whatever. So I quit took it out again cleaned it and all of a sudden no spark again. So I took it out again fooled around with it put it back in and and it was kinda backfiring and for a while there was nothing. So I sprayed some carburetor cleaner in and it started to backfire and wanted to start but did more backfiring until bender on starter was xxxxxx. So now I get to take starter out and they are so much fun. I had to put this one in before and I so wanted to tip the thing on its side, would have been much easier. So if you can shed me some light as to why it's backfiring and wanting to start. I did put new timing chain and gears in it. And when it ran for them 25-30 seconds there was no backfiring and what ever have you. At least its doing something now but the starter now. Maybe I should just pull it around for a half a day maybe it'll take off.
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Thursday, January 16th, 2020 AT 4:32 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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It sounds like either the sensor or the wiring / connector. Have you double checked the pins? Have you checked wiring? As far as a back fire, usually a build up of fuel, which can result from no spark.

Based on what you described, it sounds like that is where the problem is.

Joe
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Thursday, January 16th, 2020 AT 4:51 PM
Tiny
COWBOYROCKS
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I checked the pins on the sensor, I was going to somehow see if I could make the pin holes on the harness somewhat tighter but never did yet. See once tomorrow, I don't hardly think there is a back up of gas anymore. I can turn out a spark plug to find out. It's like the timing is off. I would say I put timing chain in wrong but I had it running for them 30 seconds and it ran just fine tell it stopped. You don't think the computer would have anything to do with it? It cranks just like a engine with a distributor that you can turn and time it different to make it run. Jon
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Thursday, January 16th, 2020 AT 6:48 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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Hi,

Can you do me a favor? Record the engine cranking so I can hear it. I'm not sure what you meant by turning a distributor (like the old one), but I know if it sounds off when cranking, it could be a timing issue. Maybe the timing chain jumped. I will be able to tell if I hear it.

Let me know.

Joe
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Friday, January 17th, 2020 AT 8:23 PM
Tiny
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I have to get the starter fixed first and we are in the middle of a dam snow storm again. Won't be tell next week. I was thinking the same thing but how can timing chain jump. I just put it in with the gears and put that tenshioner in to. Before I put the timing cover back on I wanted to start it to make sure I had it on right and it started took right off. I walked aroung the front and remembered I hadn't had the cover on and oil was squirting all over, so I quick went and shut it off, I put the cover back on and tried to restart it and it wouldn't start, no fire. And after that I did some stuff, I don't remember what and went to start it and it started, it ran and this time I said to my self this time I ain't shutting you off. Well I got out walked around looked under the hood and it stopped on its own. That was the last time it ran. The other day when I took the crank sensor out, cleaned it and put it back in, when I went to start it, it took off but stopped like right away, I don' t think timing chain has jumped because every time I had it running it ran smooth.

When I talk about a engine with a distributer and timing, Back in the day when you were doing a tune up checking the timing, puting points in and what ever you had to do, when timing was advanced to much when you were going to start the vehicle it would crank but the spark would spark to soon before it got to Top dead center it would fire and want to send the piston back down again making it at that moment crank hard of stop cranking for a second and start out and if lucky enough wouldn't take the starter out like I did.
I"ve reading on line about some crank sensors that need to be shimed, but what I understand thats only so crank don't rub on sensor to destroy it or something. My brother thinks I have to check that I got.030 between crank and sensor. The book I got says.050 but from what one guy said you only need it somewhere around there just so it don't rub on the crank. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. Suppose it can get to be to far away but as far as close, close enough so it don't rub.
I think its got to be something with the crank sensor or cam sensor or maybe even ICM. I'm leaning more to crank sensor or the harness or plug because when I took it out it ran, but this time it's got spark just ain't sparking when it's suposed to. Thats why I was wondering if that thing called the reluctor ring on the crankshaft or camshaft could possibly move that the sensors sence when to make the spark. Or the ICM don't work, something ain't working cause its producing spark when it ain't supposed to, that all I know.
Jon
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Friday, January 17th, 2020 AT 9:37 PM
Tiny
JACOBANDNICKOLAS
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I have to be honest, it sounds like it is related to the crank sensor. Recheck wiring. You can have a wire broken internally and not know it. Move the harness around to see if it makes a difference. Everything points to that as the issue.
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Friday, January 17th, 2020 AT 11:52 PM

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